I totally agree with you on what can happen, but they are advertised as amphibious, for liability alone if I was ODG they would all get one. Secondly with a slow leak from a seal failure ect. the bilge can keep you going to get home( some conditions are all swamp there is no high ground for a long ways). My opinion, might have to agree to disagree. The bilge was the very first thing I installed in my rig.
I hate to hijack this thread but I got ask foxvalley how he managed to stop the tire slippage with the tuners? ive got argo rubber tracks on my HDI and I removed the tuners because of the slippage.Originally Posted by foxvalley
A friend of mine just picked up a 2014 HDI,60 hours, and in the exact configureation,(even down to the heater)with the same problems, including a bent axle(plowing)in the front,a big gash and a small hole in the tub,from the rubber tracks.This thing was breaking chains,and chewing thru the chain tentioner pads.
Now that it is back together,including a new tub,seems that the chain windup issue was caused by a 2" difference in tire size in the front 2 tires,and now this unit sports brand new track tuners, and runs like a champ.
Im not going to mention what he paid for it,or should I say "stole" it for,but he did it right with the new tub and tuners,and now has an awesome running rig.
Shotgun,
The bilge is a great insurace policy, and I'm not condeming the bilge, just don't think it should be mandetory.I have put bilge pumps on a half dozen of my units over the years,and never used them,so now I don't, but still have the option to install one if I want.
Hey Plott hound,
This is the first time I had anyone mention track slippage with rubber tracks and tuners,but im sure it can happen. You could try more tire preasure more towards the max tire limit 7-8 lbs. If that doesnt work,the tracks themselves might have to be shortened.
Not every rubber tracked argo needs track tuners, especially if the tire size is within an inch.Ive been on some that run perfect without tuners, but have been on more where you can hear the tell tale pop pop,pop, of the tires slipping inside the tracks due to different size tires.(chain wind up)
Plott, what was the reason for putting the tuners on your unit?
Last edited by foxvalley; 01-23-2016 at 12:05 PM.
Plott, try to up the front tire by 1 psi, if that doesn't work try 1 psi in the rear also. Check track clearances.
The front significantly stopped my slippage last year which was only caused on turns.
My new beer holder spilled some on the trails - in it's hair and down it's throat.
Joe Camel never does that.
Advice is free, it's the application that costs.
sometimes people will size/index tires prior to putting on tuners, and they end up with different tires in different positions (now correctly positioned). Since the corner tires exclusively determine track length (and track tension via air pressure), while the center tires do almost nothing for this....the effective track length required for proper fit is different with the newly positioned tires. If sized/indexed properly, the smallest pair is always on the corners, which will loosen up your track quite a bit and cause the slipping. Unfortunately, the inside surface of the belting is very prone to becoming slippery in some slimy or icy conditions, and the momentary tire-slip/tire-grab "shock loading" of the drivetrain is going to happen sometimes (this isn't exactly wind-up but still not good). You can get by (slip less on the corners) and drive the track a little better without tuners if your track is effectively too long. But, it's not the best solution.
Proper indexing, track-tuners, and appropriate track length (this part most people don't do if it involves shortening) are all important.
i bought the tuners for my conquest and kept them when I sold that machine.tried the tuners on the HDI and found that I had slippage on hills and when plowing.definitly not a nice feeling.last year I indexed the tires and removed the tuners then installed the argo spacers.no more track slippage but I do get a bit of windup.figured since I spent the money on the tuners I might as well use them if at all possible.was really worried about getting into a long deep slush hole on the lake and have the tires slip on me,would make for a crappy day for sure.maybe tomorrow I will put the tuners back on.should I leave the tires indexed or re-position them?
cheers
the tuners eliminates the requirement for the smallest pair to be on the corners. This allows you to move the larger pair to the corners if you want to tighten your track up a bit prior to shortening it, or in some cases put tires (even though they might be the largest) on the corners if they seem to be the ones that hold air the best. Having tires that hold air is more important on the corners. So, some flexibility in reaching your goal, whether it be less psi on the center tires for a better ride, or more psi on corner tires (or larger tires on corners) if that makes your track fitment better.
Aim for proper track sag, and you can use the small pair or the large pair on your corners if you have tuners installed. Make #1 axle the smaller of the pair and #4 the larger of the pair. You want to stick to the theory of indexing to some extent if that makes sense. Sometimes proper track sag might mean adjusting your track if your tires run small as a batch. If you have to go over 7+ psi even with the larger pair on the corners to get down to 2" track sag, you need to shorten your track probably a minimum of 1" Hope that makes sense. Good luck!
Buzz has a good point with the tuners, that using them you can run the biggest tires on the corners,and possibly less tire preasure on the 4 center tires.I would shorten the track as a last resort.
thanks guys,ive already taken the spacer out of the track.will mess around with tire positions through the week.was gonna do it this morning but I gotta plow the yard again.
cheers
Hey guys, weird way to join in with first thread and all but I think I can really help a lot on this subject so I feel the need to key in....
I'm a big tuning nut always tinkering like most of you guys, I have almost one of everything machine wise and very unbiased overall.
For the track issue, I have a 2015 Argo 700 HD on 18" Rubber tracks and the low geared high torque trans. I'm running Adair track tuners and steel spacers for the setup.
What I found, many things:
-Only 30kms and metal track extension needed to be removed due to slippage
-Speedo needed to be calibrated with GPS to match new speed which was significantly higher, approx +3MPH
-Outter 4 wheels are primary track tension, inside still play a big role in tension however
-Snow significantly magnifies track slip conditions with tuners, definitely needed to adjust first couple snow rides to snug up slippage with Tire PSI
-Crazy how little PSI in the tires snugs up the track from slipping!
-You definitely shouldn't have the track slapping the tub, clear first sign the track may be on the loose side no doubt, should rarely if ever hit the tub even at high speeds
-Center 4 tire flat, even just one makes a big difference and can easily cause to the track slippage, I run my inside 4 at 2PSI and can tell when one goes flat!
-Outters I typically run 3-5psi depending the weather and track slip, definitely always keep a small tire pump with you always
Tips with track Tuner slip issues:
-Big plus' to the guys above with tire indexing for size, "Buzz" definitely is on top of the game in every way when it comes to tracks, he knows those setups best I find
-Use the tire indexing to your advantage as mentioned to keep PSI to a min for better ride comfort
-Initially keep inside 4 tires with little to no air in them and adjust outside 4 tires for track slip, then air up the middle for ride comfort, this way when or if you lose air in the middle tires it won't affect your track tension as much, you will know one of the 4 corner tires must need air instead
-I wouldn't hesitate to cut the track if I ever needed to shorten, tire PSI is the main factor in ride comfort and too much sucks for ride, I even have the suspension seats! But as mentioned do this at last resort AFTER the metal spacer is removed, largest 4 of 8 tires on outside corners, and tires already at 5PSI or more and still slipping
I can garauntee you if you learn your machine you will be much better off than the dealer setups, I really doubt anyone in Alberta even with our heavy oil and gas industry rentals really cares enough about setting your Argo up better than you for your conditions. I ordered my machine through a highly experienced ex-Pioneer guru and they had no clue how to tell what Trans is in the machine from the stamp on the casing. They ordered mine wrong and had to replace the trans before I even picked it up! Almost every Argo rubber track unit in town I see all have the metal spacer links still in them and super saggy tracks. They are lucky they don't have tuners or wouldn't go anywhere setup like that without slippage. Haha
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