I live in Pa., about 1200' asl but have a house in Arizona and may take my Conquest there one day so I checked the carb jet info not long ago since there is about a 3000' difference. This is what I used for reference:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...xhTRxdX9iZWDAg
Hopefully this link will work for you. D/load the PDF and go to page 28.
also, what about a turbocharger?
http://www.6x6world.com/forums/engin...ochargers.html
thanks, the link worked. looks like I need a 108, which seems to match JohnF's info.Originally Posted by PaSean
JohnF, what do you think of the dial-a-jet from thunder products? maybe I could dial it in for even higher altitude since the 108 is really only for 6,000ft "and higher" so maybe they didn't have 11,000 ft in mind when they designed that jet?
Good morning Lee.
What Mike said is true. I usually figure 3% per 1000ft and it's pretty close. Later on when you start looking up clutch tuning information this will get you pretty close to clutch weight figures too. (So, when you are in the 16HP realm with your engine the clutch weights used for the 16HP engine at sea level is a good starting guess.)
I was going to mention that you should also get thorn's story as he's worked through the same issues on the other side of the divide. Good to see he's here.
You just need one. I think I paid about $12 per (I bough the whole set) and I would just search for a cheap online source. By the way, you could choose a smaller jet.
Check this PDF out for the relationship between jet part number and the #number. At 11,000 maybe a 107.5 or 106.3 might be the choice.
I really wanted to try this out. I had some conversations with the guy there and think his theory merits experimentation. He didn't recall ever installing one on an FD620D but I did find where some guy mentions online that he did it and it worked. The Thunder Products guy was working with me to figure out how to fit it when I came across the engine I now have installed so I didn't pursue it further.
But yeah, I was looking for a way for me to manually set mixture like I do on airplanes.
And I don't think much thought was put into people running at 11,000 ft. That's a pretty small fringe group.
Bah... I've seen your posts. Skills are learned.
I waffled a bit about answering this here but maybe a good story will give you hope.
I made money doing the swap (assuming my time is free). And that includes my conversion from FD750D to FD791D. I really wanted the FD791D and spent a couple years hoping to find one on craigslist or ebay that I could rebuild and use so I was watching this FD750D ad that ran for months up in Grand Junction. The price just kept falling from what was an awesome price anyway until I drove there and picked it up. It was crate new, never used and clean as can be when I took it apart. The FD791D parts (except for new pistons) are from a seized lawn mower engine.
I sold the FD620D only about 3 months ago. Too bad too. We could have converted it to an FD661D for you.
29HP at 11000 is roughly (29 * (1 - (11 * .03)) 19.4HP so I would be pretty much in the FD620D at sea level realm.
Of course you can. (I can be a smart azz so...)
I don't know of any in the Denver area but I did ride with the guy from Craig. He's the one that told me I needed still smaller clutch weights.
Well, hmm. I think conquests are pretty awesome tough machines but under powered for some of the higher elevations we play around in. The HP of the newer argos improves that. The EFI will get you a little better fuel efficiency and magic mixture control if you change elevations frequently at the cost of higher complexity and tougher "fix it in the wild"ness. The dial-a-jet might give a mixture solution that works great for elevation changes and the fuel efficiency isn't that huge.
Yes, you need to adjust idle when you change elevation. That's pretty easy - a screw on the carburetor. To make it easier install a tiny tach (or Chinese equivalent from ebay). I kept the tools to change the jet when I needed to and it only takes about 4 minutes but it sure was a drag. If you are keeping it at 11k then this will be a non-issue.
The classic Argo transmission turn with excess power. When you have none you can't turn. One thing to think about is that the admiral transmission doesn't need excess power to turn so that could be a plus too.
One time I went on a ride an the engine was running on only one cylinder. I really couldn't tell by sound or anything but it was gutless. Tim (from Adair) dropped snow on the exhaust and identified the issue. Might want to be aware that that can happen.
I think we need to dig into your clutching. Jetting will be easy once you get the jet. Way easier than sticking metal bits together with fire and sparks. Order 3 of this is my guess. (Yeah, that price is per) Wait, I have a set. I have a couple different sizes and you can borrow them. PM me.
And then it going to come down to horsepower. If we assume that the machine operates at 8000 with performance you can live with:
(20 * (1 - (8 * .03)) = 15.2 HP.
So to get 15.2 HP at 11K:
(15.2 / (1 - (11 * .03)) = We need to start with 22.7HP sea level. That's the FD661D.
[EDIT]
Turbos are great! Every pilots wants the performance but few will stomach the maintenance. About 6 months ago the turbo on my jetta ate itself. That pretty much sucked the money saved by fuel efficiency right out of the total equation.
Keeping yours at 11K means a carburetor fed naturally aspired engine is a really good solution. It's really not that bad if you change elevations every now and than either.
Last edited by JohnF; 01-20-2015 at 02:27 PM.
thank you all so much for taking the time to respond and to try to help. I very much appreciate the advice and your time.
I will call Thunder Products and discuss the dial a jet. If that does not appear to be viable, I will look for a jet 106.3 or 107.5
Questions
1. Is it possible to convert my FD620D to a FD661D as you mentioned? What is involved in a nut shell and what kind of cost? Are parts off the shelf?
2. running on one cylinder. snow on the exhaust? meaning it didn't melt and therefore was not hot so that identified the issue?
3. do you think seafoam is worth running through once to clean things up in case there was bad gas or old gas at some point?
4. i will PM you about the clutch weights. you are in thorton, I actually work in Broomfield so should be easy to come pickup. Very appreciated. would love to see your machine and your engine swap.
5. turbos. does anybody make a bolt on kit for the FD620D?
6. what about opening up the top of the air cleaner to let more air flow? make a custom cover...
7. how about removing the muffler/exhuast and fabricating some nice large diameter pipes with no muffler? would this help? be to loud to stand it? maybe inside my cab it would be tolerable.
8. tracks. mine i suspect are VERY heavy. It took two of us to really move and lift each track when I picked up the argo. They are the plastic tracks (supertracks?) and then the argo dealer bolted on angle iron and a thick rubber extension. Quite a bit of extra weight. maybe they are bogging me down to much? wonder if some lighter tracks would help a lot? according to what i found, they are 112lbs per track before modifications. anyone know the weight of the "17" classic adair tracks"?
Thanks John, Mike and everybody.
I think so: <CLICK RIGHT HERE>
Right.
I'm a seafoam fan. Sort of a tuneup in a can for many situations.
My office is behind the Walgreens. I could walk over to KT's for lunch one day...
Not that I know of.
Oh yeah, I've taken the filter off before and it may help a little.
That probably won't make a difference unless there is an issue in the pipes that are on there.
Oh yeah again. Mine had the shorter angle iron modification on it when I got them. I took them off due the weight. I "think" it helped but have no science to back that up. But the channel tracks like thorn's lowers your gear ratio to the ground and can have a dramatic effect.
Small v twins will not push enough air/exhaust volume to run a Turbo, its been tried over and over. they may look cool and guys will say bla bla but its all smoke N mirrors
Utube is full of guys puttin' em on push mowers etc
My Chanel tracks do help with the gear reduction, but I was able to go a lot same places with my Supertracks with the angle iron cleats (no belt extension). They were just slower getting there and did not have the climbing ability. One of the biggest pluses to the Chanels is you do not bog/loose power nearly as much when making turns climbing or in deep snow.
I don't know what kind of load Blue had or the snow conditions, but 1-2 mph in low seems to tell me that something is not right. Without knowing how old the gas was in it, treated/untreated, etc. It could be all the problems I mentioned as well as a thrown/bent push rod which is also common for these engines if the gas got gummy. I know these are under powered at altitude, but the previous owner could have been having problems with it and did not address them.
what brand are your tracks? turning was a major issue when I tried it out at the cabin. I just didn't have any power to turn.
the other owner claims he kept stabilizer in the gas. but who knows. Is checking the push rods a complete engine tear down? I am really just not an engine person, its all greek to me. There was a brief 60 second period one of the times I started up the machine at 11,000 ft where it ran more similar to my house at 8000ft. It has some power, and climbed right over a drift that I previously could not get over. When I turned the machine off and restarted, it was back to the slow going. I ran it a dozen times over 2 days and all the other time it was slow and underpowered. Thoughts?
Is there somewhere I can take it in for service to get everything looked over to see if its running as it should? I hate to start making modifications if there is just something else going on. Is it possible that any of this could be transmission related? It likes to pop out of reverse, you have to hold the lever manually in place. It popped out of low gear a few times going downhill too.
Something is not right. Yes I think your tracks are very heavy, but you do have a GU tranny if I read it correctly.
It's more than just carb jetting. Your engine should have plenty of power in stock form. In regards to tracks, it would have no problem turning an elevated belt track in any condition if your stock Kawasaki is running right and your clutches are functioning properly. Even older or low HP machines do not feel underpowered when driving an elevated-belt track. Something to consider down the road.
I would start with a few basics in regards to the engine. Confirm you have adequate output from your fuel pump. Make sure you are having reliable spark at all times from both cylinders. Check for spark but also remove one plug wire at a time and attempt to drive it around. If it doesn't feel hugely different, that's a big deal. Do a compression test. Clean the carb. Again verify that clutches are working and there is not an unseen drag somewhere in the drivetrain. You'll figure it out, and you do have an excellent machine so hang in there.
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