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So a friend of mine asked, and I wasn't sure, so here is his question...
Does deep snow or hard packed snow stop an argo? I've got an '07 Avenger with tracks and have been in 2-3' of light powder and had no issues.. Would a crust on the snow cause issues? I know that the larger surface area keeps the ground pressure low, but I wasn't sure if there was reasonable limitations.. I told him that in 5' of snow, you might wanna look at a sled for sure..
Every off-road vehicle has limitations but tracks increase your ability to traverse more extreme conditions...5 feet of hard pack shouldn’t give you problems wth the right cleats but powder is a different story. Remember the Argo is basically a boat on wheels and it will want to “float” in deep powder as will a sled, leaving you high centered. Difference is a sled will power you through (to a degree) with horsepower and RPM’s as long as you can stay afloat! Slow down or tip a sled over and it’s over (until you get it unstuck)
i just went 1' of snow powder and the argo have hard time to go max speed maybe 10 km/h it almost stop on a very small hill. The oil light went on its a brand new argo.....
What transmission ratio did you order?Quote:
Originally Posted by alain
i didnt know that i have a choice of transmission?
my 2012 hdi will destroy at least 2ft of powder running rubber tracks.its like theres no snow at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alain
Once you get into snow deeper than the machine has ground clearance I see no reason why any more depth would cause any more or less difficulty. It’s sort of like saying how deep of water can a boat float on? 12” or 12’ if your pressure is low its low. I know snow wheelers with 54” tall tires running 1-2PSI that drive around on 15’ of snow.
Hills are going to be the majority of problems since snow mobiles can sometimes only clime these with momentum. In much the same way a Polaris Turbo Razor can climb a dirt hill an Argo couldn’t via a running start.
Although we usually don't get much snow in NC, we love using our rubber tracks for snow. It rides really smooth and we haven't had any clearance issues.
Think about 5 feet of powder snow...The Argo wheels/tracks couldn't possibly reach solid ground when "afloat" on that powder. The tracks would simply spin once the snow under the Argo packed down enough...then where's the traction to move forward? Then, if it did mire itself enough to make contact with hard ground, you would be up to your kazoo in powder snow with nowhere to go except back where you came from...maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by allwheeldrive
Thanks for the replies everyone.. Kinda what I was thinking.. Know that you don't go everywhere, but damn near..
Though I have no real experience, I believe what your asking could possibly happen as follows.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen1971
You are atop 6-8 inches of crust with powder underneath, a turn ( most likely) breaks the crust and you are now in powder attempting to push and hopefully climb back on the crust. I'd assume it would be like breaking through ice in a marsh having a bulk to push with minimal traction resulting in some additional downward force ( less floatation).
Again I'd assume, a straight path in either direction would be your friend to climb back on top though it may continue to break for a while.
Attachment 16664Attachment 16665Attachment 16666pictures say a thousand words.heres NCT and my self in 3 feet of snow with very little crust.
Thanks Plott Hound your pictures say it all. Not hard to have 3 to 4 ft of snow in our area and I have yet to be stopped in it. I will admit to some minor detours on certain hills or packing the snow to climb a hill.
Southeastern Mass. we get a wet snow here ,my friend with an Argo Big Foot and stock 18” Argo plastic track owns the winters here , Adair open swim/ mud tracks on my Frontier dig a hole with very little foward movement or if deep enough high centers the body and your stuck , but short of snow here I ain’t found anything it cann’t go through short of driver error and /or machine break down..... I will try an experiment by placing belting to inclose the track for winter use hopefully to get it to run atop the snow and not dig in, ....but may have to break down and get a set of plastic track but with so few / little snow here of late just cann’t justify the $$$$$.....
what tracks are you running floorman?Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorman
There are hundreds of snow pack combinations. i would wager Usually powder snow as you describe only exist for a short while directly after a snow fall. It quickly compacts melts freezes over and over into the hard crusty laminations we are used to. In all my time skiing I’ve never encountered powder more than 6” deep. I’d think you’d need 5 feet of snow in a single storm to get such a scenario. The chances for such a snow condition might not be impossible but it has to be extremely unlikely. So the answer is: Yes an argo on tracks could not drive through 5’ of powder. No: I can’t image in all the miles of Argos driving has this condition presented its self. Mind you if such a deep layer of powder existed. You’d sure as die stepping into it as quick sand and every animal not hibernating would essentially drown.Quote:
Originally Posted by mowbizz
I have seen video of a man driving Escargo tracks through 45 cm of powder. He stepped off the Argo and sank to his waist. He dropped an ax, lengthwise into the snow and it went in all the way, plus another 6 or 7 inches. I think he had the winter extension kit attached to the tracks. I saw another video of red conquest driver going up a steep hill with the winter extension kit attached, and he was in deep snow.
Myself, I hope we get that much snow, although 2 feet is possible, it is rare in one storm. The Beaver Dam tracks I have have an even better bite than Escargo tracks, and I am itching to test them in as deep of snow as possible.
Steve
Certainly not impossible in some parts of the world! We in New England have had 3'+ storms in recent years and look at Buffalo NY with the lake effect snow..they do get whacked 5' at a time but I'm sure it's not all powder like in Colorado...Quote:
Originally Posted by allwheeldrive
With my 2011 HDI and rubber tracks we have no problem in deep Utah powder. The last stretch to my cabin is on a 15 degree grade and I've gone up it with 2 feet of powder, 4 people, and food for the weekend. Sure it slows it down, but the Argo just keeps pulling til we are there. It's FAR better flotation than a UTV on tracks.
Attachment 16667
I'm sorry if I got the scenario or possible outcome wrong, guess the picture in my head was on a different channel than the rest.
Hi Plott Hound
I am running 18in. Argo rubber tracks on 2013 avenger. Last argo had 20in tracks unstoppable but took a lot of power to move over 400lbs of track.
i was able to go thru 18'' of snow ( it was still falling at the time ) in my max 2 highboy with the adair shackle tracks. i had added extra belting crossways between the groussers.. i had the tub clearance, but the tracks finally just would not grab. just barely made it into the garage. some wide solid rubber or plastic tracks would have been the ticket probably. wonder how wide a belt could be added to the outside edge of a track ? johnboy va.
Yes an argo with the right tracks will float on 10' of snow if you can find it. The thing about snow is it just keeps getting compacted as more falls on top and becomes a solid base, that's why sleds can get around in the mountains. They sink through the first 1' of powder and grab traction on the progressively more dense layers underneath. Same thing an argo does, but an argo doesn't have the benefit of 100km/h of momentum to get up the near vertical climbs. The best setup is having a "winter kit" or track extensions combined with ice cleats. Adair sells a kit for theirs and escargo does as well I think, can be easily adapted to any belted track for sure. Wouldn't be too difficult a DIY project either if you have the time. Of course you'll still find places to get stuck, snow likes to drift into low spots and make little pockets of super deep powder to bury you in.
The guys in this video know the setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwHdz9raHtI
I've been skiing for a short time and we've been in knee deep powder a few times...Quote:
Originally Posted by allwheeldrive
Thanks! That's kinda what I was thinking of when I talked to my buddy. All about surface area..Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlR
Great insights on snow use!!
I will be using my Argo for the first time in snow this winter and I have been wondering which gear would be best?
I have 17" plastic tracks.
Snowmobiles use speed as an advantage when traversing snow but obviously an Argo cannot reach those speeds.
Would the higher (faster) gear still be the proper one to use or would low range be better?
It probably has more to do with the fact that the mountains in my area consistently ice glaze like a parking lot. Any snow is better than ice lol. I recall once during a storm on the mt there was powder past the toes on my boot but that’s the most I’ve seen in years lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen1971
Anyways back on track, no pun intended ;-p
I’ve been told that with the Admiral transmission, use high gear under all circumstances unless a real tight turning radius is needed. In practice, I’ve found this to be mostly true. I keep mine in high gear even when climbing through powder. I have found that turning in powder can be tough as you are pushing a lot of snow to the side when making a turn. Certainly low gear helps there. I’ve also found some circumstances where the incline or snow levels are just too high to traverse in high gear and drop to low gear whenever forward progress is stopped in high gear. It’s not frequent but I’ve had times when dropping into low gear has been necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_B
I would just like to add a safety reminder to all going out into the snow this year. Getting stuck or broke down in the woods in deep snow is a whole different proposition than at other times of year. Take safety gear and supplies, including snow shoes. No machine should be trusted with your life or your loved ones’ lives. Buddy up whenever possible and while it’s ok to flash a grin at those snowmobilers all bundled up for the weather, you may need them if you break down. Oh, and never leave home without a spare drive belt!
with your machine craig I'm thinking low gear.
damn carl,that looks like some nice riding.what elevation are you at?Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlR
Last year we had ridiculous snow levels, definitely above average. The cabin is at 7200 feet in the Northern Utah mountains. We'll push into the higher elevations this year now that we have a pair of Argos to keep us safe. The deep, deep stuff is in the 10,000 feet ranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by plott hound
Argos make great sled/tube "lifts". :D
Attachment 16669
Hi i live in the up. Of michigan and have argos for 20 years. We get between 300 and 400 inches of snow a year with plenty of powder. My current argo with 20 inch tracks will go just about anywhere i point it . Steep hills can be a problem but once you get up or down it once your good for the rest of the winter. I beaver trap in the winter and some of the places i been thru still amazes me after 20 years argo owner. And thousands of beaver in my argo and sometimes the extra weight is an advantage, at times pushing snow to the winch and sometimes over the hood.