Conquest carb jetting

[JohnF]

I purchased a '98 Conquest from a fellow that used it for accessing his high country cabin. When it got to my house (Thornton CO - elevation 5342ft) it
ran a little rough and wanted to die when hitting the throttle. This is a typical symptom when the carburetor is under jetted or dirty so I started at the carb. Pulled it and found it has jet 108. Looked clean. (I'll still run some seafoam through it just because I have no history with this carb yet.)

For reference:

My use will be at the following locations:
Pollock SD - 1654ft
Rushville NE - 3740ft
I live at Thornton CO - 5342ft
And elk hunting in the mountains can easily get me to 10Kft

So I hit google etc. looking for a jetting chart. None. My dealer tells me that Argo doesn't have one. Not to be detered, I combed through the parts manuals for conquests and compiled the following:

Kawasaki FD620D-_S12 Jetting information


(Gleaned from parts documents)
PART#      : DESC.    : SIZE : ALT.     : ENGINE VERSION
-----------:----------:------:----------:----------------
92063-2219 : JET-MAIN : #108 : 6560 ft. : FS12-KS12
92063-2239 : JET-MAIN : #110 : 3280 ft. : FS12-KS12
92063-2241 : JET-MAIN : #112 :      ft. : AS12-MS12
92063-2354 : JET-MAIN : #114 : 3280 ft. : MS12
92063-2491 : JET-MAIN : #116 :      ft. : MS12


There does not appear to be engine versions: ES12, IS12, LS12


Jetting for engine versions AS12-KS12
-------------------------------------
#112 for 0ft and above
#110 for 3280ft and above
#108 for 6560ft and above



Jetting for engine version MS12
------------------------
#116 for 0ft and above
#114 for 3280ft and above
#112 for 6560ft and above

I confirmed the above with my dealer.

The part number above is the Kawasaki part number. Argo part numbers are something like 92063C and vary depending on the parts chart (grouped by engine versions). You can order these from Kawasaki small engine parts retailer online like this one or this one by the Kawasaki number. If I were ordering from an Argo dealer I would let them know the engine version and the jet#.

I will be getting the other two jets for the set. I did consider a dial-a-jet and I'll post another thread to talk about that.

John

[bluebruin]

hi John
Lee here. I have the 1999 conquest that I bought from the guy in Grand Junction. I don't know what jet number it has yet. How do I tell? I have the 20HP kawasaki engine. But, I ran it at my cabin this weekend 11,000 ft. It has virtually no power. I almost couldn't get back up my ramps onto the trailer. When I got home, I ran it some more (8,000ft) and found it ran much better with more power. But, I am thinking I need to replace the jets for altitude. This post was a long time ago, what did you end up doing?
Thanks

[JohnF]

Hey Lee.

The number is stamped on the jet itself so you'll have to pull the carburetor to find out.
I know what you mean about power being an issue. Some things to consider: The drive pulley may be engaging too soon and lugging the engine - fix this by increasing drive pulley preload by getting a stronger spring or adding shims, look for a description by Rock Doctor where he used a loop of welding rod, I used a stack of snap rings. The drive pulley mass is too high to get into the RPM range where the engine is making power - fix this by using smaller masses, and I bet your are already drilled out, I bought a complete set and found that even smaller than the drilled out worked better.

The engine does run better jetted for the elevation but the difference isn't earth shattering. At the elevation you mention I couldn't really run around on tracks and especially so in high gear.

So, What I did. I haven't had it to higher country yet. (I should finish that thread...)

But, Here's an option that I think has merit.

[bluebruin]

thanks John
that is depressing. most of those modifications are beyond my skill set and the time or money I have available. If jetting won't add much power (10%), I don't know if the argo will work for me. I planned to use it exclusively at my cabin at 11,000ft. how much do you think your engine swap will cost in the end? wondering if I should cut my losses and sell the argo before I tear into it or spend more money. Please let me know if you get up to elevation to test yours out. If it works great, maybe its something I could pay someone to do? Are there any argo dealers in Denver? I saw something on facebook about a place in Craig, CO, but that's it.

[Mike]

bluebruin, I know your question is in regards to a Kawasaki but I remember reading the Briggs and Stratton literature on high altitude performance and it said that you loose something like 3-4% power from the engine for every 1000ft of elevation above sea level. So 3.5% x 11 = 38.5% Your 20HP motor would be making 12.3HP using those numbers. That's not much HP to move you along.

[bluebruin]

yeah, especially with tracks and a hardtop I wanted to build. Anyone in the market for a 1999 Conquest with 350hrs, an aluminum top, and tracks with powder extensions? Thanks

[bluebruin]

I purchased a '98 Conquest from a fellow that used it for accessing his high country cabin. When it got to my house (Thornton CO - elevation 5342ft) it
ran a little rough and wanted to die when hitting the throttle. This is a typical symptom when the carburetor is under jetted or dirty so I started at the carb. Pulled it and found it has jet 108. Looked clean. (I'll still run some seafoam through it just because I have no history with this carb yet.)

For reference:

My use will be at the following locations:
Pollock SD - 1654ft
Rushville NE - 3740ft
I live at Thornton CO - 5342ft
And elk hunting in the mountains can easily get me to 10Kft

So I hit google etc. looking for a jetting chart. None. My dealer tells me that Argo doesn't have one. Not to be detered, I combed through the parts manuals for conquests and compiled the following:

Kawasaki FD620D-_S12 Jetting information


(Gleaned from parts documents)
PART#      : DESC.    : SIZE : ALT.     : ENGINE VERSION
-----------:----------:------:----------:----------------
92063-2219 : JET-MAIN : #108 : 6560 ft. : FS12-KS12
92063-2239 : JET-MAIN : #110 : 3280 ft. : FS12-KS12
92063-2241 : JET-MAIN : #112 :      ft. : AS12-MS12
92063-2354 : JET-MAIN : #114 : 3280 ft. : MS12
92063-2491 : JET-MAIN : #116 :      ft. : MS12


There does not appear to be engine versions: ES12, IS12, LS12


Jetting for engine versions AS12-KS12
-------------------------------------
#112 for 0ft and above
#110 for 3280ft and above
#108 for 6560ft and above



Jetting for engine version MS12
------------------------
#116 for 0ft and above
#114 for 3280ft and above
#112 for 6560ft and above

I confirmed the above with my dealer.

The part number above is the Kawasaki part number. Argo part numbers are something like 92063C and vary depending on the parts chart (grouped by engine versions). You can order these from Kawasaki small engine parts retailer online like this one or this one by the Kawasaki number. If I were ordering from an Argo dealer I would let them know the engine version and the jet#.

I will be getting the other two jets for the set. I did consider a dial-a-jet and I'll post another thread to talk about that.

John

John
I am not an engine person... how many jets do I need, and where did you buy yours? I am just trying to look them up to see what kind of cost I am looking at. thanks!

[PaSean]

I live in Pa., about 1200' asl but have a house in Arizona and may take my Conquest there one day so I checked the carb jet info not long ago since there is about a 3000' difference. This is what I used for reference:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...xhTRxdX9iZWDAg

Hopefully this link will work for you. D/load the PDF and go to page 28.

[bluebruin]

I live in Pa., about 1200' asl but have a house in Arizona and may take my Conquest there one day so I checked the carb jet info not long ago since there is about a 3000' difference. This is what I used for reference:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...xhTRxdX9iZWDAg

Hopefully this link will work for you. D/load the PDF and go to page 28.

thanks, the link worked. looks like I need a 108, which seems to match JohnF's info.

JohnF, what do you think of the dial-a-jet from thunder products? maybe I could dial it in for even higher altitude since the 108 is really only for 6,000ft "and higher" so maybe they didn't have 11,000 ft in mind when they designed that jet?

[JohnF]

Good morning Lee.

What Mike said is true. I usually figure 3% per 1000ft and it's pretty close. Later on when you start looking up clutch tuning information this will get you pretty close to clutch weight figures too. (So, when you are in the 16HP realm with your engine the clutch weights used for the 16HP engine at sea level is a good starting guess.)

I was going to mention that you should also get thorn's story as he's worked through the same issues on the other side of the divide. Good to see he's here.

... how many jets do I need, and where did you buy yours? I am just trying to look them up to see what kind of cost I am looking at. thanks!

You just need one. I think I paid about $12 per (I bough the whole set) and I would just search for a cheap online source. By the way, you could choose a smaller jet.

Check this PDF out for the relationship between jet part number and the #number. At 11,000 maybe a 107.5 or 106.3 might be the choice.

... JohnF, what do you think of the dial-a-jet from thunder products? maybe I could dial it in for even higher altitude since the 108 is really only for 6,000ft "and higher" so maybe they didn't have 11,000 ft in mind when they designed that jet?

I really wanted to try this out. I had some conversations with the guy there and think his theory merits experimentation. He didn't recall ever installing one on an FD620D but I did find where some guy mentions online that he did it and it worked. The Thunder Products guy was working with me to figure out how to fit it when I came across the engine I now have installed so I didn't pursue it further.

But yeah, I was looking for a way for me to manually set mixture like I do on airplanes.

And I don't think much thought was put into people running at 11,000 ft. That's a pretty small fringe group.

... most of those modifications are beyond my skill set ...

Bah... I've seen your posts. Skills are learned.

... how much do you think your engine swap will cost in the end? ...

I waffled a bit about answering this here but maybe a good story will give you hope.
I made money doing the swap (assuming my time is free). And that includes my conversion from FD750D to FD791D. I really wanted the FD791D and spent a couple years hoping to find one on craigslist or ebay that I could rebuild and use so I was watching this FD750D ad that ran for months up in Grand Junction. The price just kept falling from what was an awesome price anyway until I drove there and picked it up. It was crate new, never used and clean as can be when I took it apart. The FD791D parts (except for new pistons) are from a seized lawn mower engine.

I sold the FD620D only about 3 months ago. Too bad too. We could have converted it to an FD661D for you.

Please let me know if you get up to elevation to test yours out. If it works great, ...

29HP at 11000 is roughly (29 * (1 - (11 * .03)) 19.4HP so I would be pretty much in the FD620D at sea level realm.

maybe its something I could pay someone to do? Are there any argo dealers in Denver? I saw something on facebook about a place in Craig, CO, but that's it.

Of course you can. (I can be a smart azz so...)
I don't know of any in the Denver area but I did ride with the guy from Craig. He's the one that told me I needed still smaller clutch weights.

... another question, would a newer argo with EFI be better?

Well, hmm. I think conquests are pretty awesome tough machines but under powered for some of the higher elevations we play around in. The HP of the newer argos improves that. The EFI will get you a little better fuel efficiency and magic mixture control if you change elevations frequently at the cost of higher complexity and tougher "fix it in the wild"ness. The dial-a-jet might give a mixture solution that works great for elevation changes and the fuel efficiency isn't that huge.

Yes, you need to adjust idle when you change elevation. That's pretty easy - a screw on the carburetor. To make it easier install a tiny tach (or Chinese equivalent from ebay). I kept the tools to change the jet when I needed to and it only takes about 4 minutes but it sure was a drag. If you are keeping it at 11k then this will be a non-issue.

The classic Argo transmission turn with excess power. When you have none you can't turn. One thing to think about is that the admiral transmission doesn't need excess power to turn so that could be a plus too.

One time I went on a ride an the engine was running on only one cylinder. I really couldn't tell by sound or anything but it was gutless. Tim (from Adair) dropped snow on the exhaust and identified the issue. Might want to be aware that that can happen.

I think we need to dig into your clutching. Jetting will be easy once you get the jet. Way easier than sticking metal bits together with fire and sparks. Order 3 of this is my guess. (Yeah, that price is per ) Wait, I have a set. I have a couple different sizes and you can borrow them. PM me.

And then it going to come down to horsepower. If we assume that the machine operates at 8000 with performance you can live with:

(20 * (1 - (8 * .03)) = 15.2 HP.

So to get 15.2 HP at 11K:

(15.2 / (1 - (11 * .03)) = We need to start with 22.7HP sea level. That's the FD661D.

[EDIT]

also, what about a turbocharger?
http://www.6x6world.com/forums/engin...ochargers.html

Turbos are great! Every pilots wants the performance but few will stomach the maintenance. About 6 months ago the turbo on my jetta ate itself. That pretty much sucked the money saved by fuel efficiency right out of the total equation.

Keeping yours at 11K means a carburetor fed naturally aspired engine is a really good solution. It's really not that bad if you change elevations every now and than either.