Axel upgrade

[whipper-ag]

[doccerny]

Ah, then I want to amend my advice from above. You should have your machinist buddy pm/email/(maybe call) Whipper. They would probably speak the same language anyway. In this case Whipper is more than a machinist; he is also an aficionado of these machines and has experience with what does and does not work.

Yip, I've seen and read alot about Whipper on here he is the guru. I snapped another back axle the other day and it was new ( month old). My Argo doesnt even look like an Argo anymore. We use it as a flat bed mule and the axles can't handle the weight (3000Lbs vehicle and cargo) we don't abuse it , just slow and easy, but its too borderline on over weight. The first 2 years we didn't have trouble but have broke 3 axles this winter. One of the new ones just broke Saturday, so it wasn't because they were 40 years old like we guessed.
Probably gunna rebuild the frame and everything(big axles and bearings) again this summer but I got to get it going to last me into Feb.

[doccerny]

You never said what kind of axles. Solid or splined? Or how big a diameter?

1144 is a cold drawn bar & might do crazy things after you machine it. I don't know if it's available in turn, ground & polished. If it isn't you might have to buy oversized material & grind it down. That can get expensive if you have to do that. It's probably a better material than 4140, but if it's a splined axle, by the time you cut the spline, it could warp all over the place one time & be fine the next. If an axle doesn't run true & straight, it's not worth putting in a car.

I've had good luck with the 4140 pre-heat treated material, turned, ground & polished. The TGP tolerance is +.000 -.001 - .0015. That's just enough clearance to slip in the bearing.

Anyone that is doing the gear work, tell them not to spline them unless they run true between centers, otherwise it might not fit in the internal spline of the sprocket. There is only about .002 clearance between the minor & major dia. of a 6 tooth straight sided spline. So hobbing an axle with too much runout will cause it not to fit.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Whipper

Thanks Whipper, I,m replacing the 1" dia. original shafts, one at a time. Until Sat. and A one month old new shaft broke. Don't know where it broke yet haven't tore it apart. My buddy is a machinist, and told me I shouldn't break this one but we did. I'll ask him in a min. what we made the replacement shafts out of. I got to get one made now, but it only has to work for abou 3 weeks, then this summer we can break her down again and beef up everything. So you would suggest the 4140 heat treated and not spline it. The axles are breaking between the inner and outer bearings, at the sprocket pin holes.Any suggestions? Thanks alot. Mike

[doccerny]

Well talked to my machinest buddy and he made them out of 4140 heat treated,so I guess their just too small dia.and I'll have to beaf them up to 1 3/8" or 1 1/2"this summer. Whipper would you spline the bigger shaft diameter for the sprockets or not? My buddy is a machinist for a oil drilling company he knew every word you suggested and translated it to me. LOL

[sieg]

Hey guys thought i might chime in with my 2 cents on this topic as i am a machinist and just recently finished making all new axles for my argo as well. First off, 4140 is a great choice. It machines fairly easy and is very tough and stable when machining. A cheaper alternative however with somewhat similar properties, which i made my axles out of, is 1045 steel. Its a hot rolled steel, still very stable and almost as tough as 4140. Its also readily available in precision ground shafts at less than $10 / ft. I used 1 1/4" for mine and also made them longer to extend the wheels and they are really strong, and i drive mine like whipper...like a rental. lol.

[hydromike]

You haven't tried them yet???

I'm using ONE of them!

I didn't have a clue that they were that expensive. No clue. When GeoJem bent an axle at Ashtabula, I put one of the replacements in and beat on it the rest of the day (until I melted it down). They're not sitting around getting all rusty; they've been nicely preserved for future use. I'll make sure to put slide the other axle in before race time and I'll make sure to test them both out.

Sorry.
And thank you again.

[vanmeterj1]

I'm thinking that this is one of those pay me now or pay me later situations. I recently took a little survey on axels for my Attex project and came up with the 4140 as being the most commonly used axel out there. If you race it, work it like a broke mule, drive it like a rental, or just plain abuse it then you might want to consider just getting some of the top of the list splined supersized steel or maybe even one of those sweet suspension (springer) kits. Those look like the universal ride/axel/performance solutions.(you know, I actually day dream about having a Bad A$$ Max IV with a springer kit on it)

Practicality wins, so on the other hand I can say that I took the advise on the 4140 that I got from McMaster Carr and came out like a pro. Now Mind you, i'm not even close to being a machinist and I could handle the material in my man cave garage with my trusty rusty chop saw and my 120$ skill drill press. all axels and spares for 200$ is a good bet.

As far as your axels breaking at the bolt locations mid shaft I remember there was a comment made on here that the tolerances needed to be close so there was no sloshing around and one person insisted that the half moon bolt collars had to fit well or it would be a mess.