1969 LTV KID ATV

[tweeter166]

i will help you out with your rack all you want or i will even build you a bolt on system for your kid if you like. i will even build you new body if you like. i have a full shop here with fab and machine department and a paint shop also.
jlmmachine@earthlink.net if you want to discuse this.

Yes sharkfin4's tubes are homemade PVC. the tubes i was talking about looked like your fenders bout they had a bottom in them witch made them a tube for extra floation. maybe it was just something someone made?

[Southern Comfort Kid]

According to Shoson's website there was a high flotation kit, but I can't see closing in the fenders because the tracks run up in there and there wouldn't be much space left for foam. I was thinking of a floatation foam filled wrap system like those on the attach website:MPAV MULTI PURPOSE AMPHIBIOUS VEHICLE

Also anyone interested in a Kid check current Ebay auction #180437622008 pix below.

[LTV KID]

I like the way you think i was going to get some foam too. I know its not much but you know the front and back bumpers i was going to fill those with foam. then I was thinking about the foam ring around it covered in thin metal but i think im going to put a large tool box on the back for floatation
/
/____________________ [----]
l========I==========l l X l <---water tight box
l____________________l l X l
(===)(===) (===) (===)l____/-8 <---propeller
8888888888888888888
haha you see the box its got a Xs in it but it is just a thought for now

[LTV KID]

i dont know now after watching this video foam ring stability looks really good
check out this video Hydratrek in the Mississippi River (youtube)

[tweeter166]

Souteren comfort. yes thats the floatation i was talking about.. looking back at your pictures now i made a miss stack. the tubes i seen looked like your fender flares but went alot higher up the side that i remember now..


LTV KID foam dont help float if you enclose it unless you get a leak in the enclouser. if you put foam on the outside it will help it float but if you say build a sheet metal box and fill it with foam the foam is not helping make it float unless you get a hole in the said metal box.

[Southern Comfort Kid]

Boy, they must have been nuts to put those in the MS river? Maybe they don't have they river current that we have down here. But of course they did have a chase/rescue/tow boat with them, wonder if they had to use it? And those 6x6 start at about $35k and have twin 11" props.

Foam not add floatation unless flooded? Yep, floatation only works when the air is trapped under the water, fighting to rise to the surface (ever try to hold one of those foam "kick" boards that kids learn to swim with under the water in a pool?) But thats the point, normally the air in the enclosed foam collar won't add boyancy, just more "hull" surface area on the water for better stability, but if water starts filling the vehicle by swamping or holes in the hull, the weight of the water is pulling the vehicle down and the air trapped in the foam in the collar (and between the double hulls of boats) works to offset the weight and tries to keep it at the surface. Different types of foam products have different amounts of "weight" it will offset, they will tell you how much "cubic feet" of foam is required for x pounds. I'm not sure the little amount of cubic feet of foam in the collar would offset all of the weight and prevent sinking, but every little bit helps.

I also don't think 8 tires will keep it up either. The air in your tires will help but you're just trying to add whatever to help offset loosing a 2300# item plus payload (you). I think the "floatation collar" best enhances stability if it starts tipping back & forth in the water or with waves, just like "out-riggers". Notice one of those AATVs in the video has a much wider collar with a wide track. My Kid definitely rides higher in the water with my 16 tires than with only 8. Again, that air is trapped below the surface in the tires, so it is trying to rise to the surface, causing it to ride higher.

Good video, great "Think Tank"!

[Bw6]

Flotation (Floatation), Displacement and Buoyancy principals all started with some Greek guy named Archimedes. Simply stated: Any object, solid or hollow, will float if the volume of water that it displaces weighs more than the object itself does. Its all about displacement and not air. A cubic foot displaces 62.5 lbs in fresh water, 64 lbs in salt water. A 55 gal. drum will displace around 440 lbs.

As far as adding flotation to the Kid, a couple of 8" diameter tubes x 8' long will displace approx. 174 lbs each (minus the weight of the tubes). Of course to be effective they have to below the water line.

[Southern Comfort Kid]

Displacement, thats the term I couldn't think of! True air does not make the drum float. But a 55 gal drum will only displace the water and float until it develops a hole and the interior space inside is filled by water, whereby the weight exceeds the water displaced around the drum and it sinks. True to that rule of bouyancy. The real purpose of the foam is to fill the container (drum) and prevent the water from filling the drum and increasing the weight, thereby maintaining the bouyancy even if a hole develops.

I do remember seeing a picture of a Kid in water with hinged panels or boards over the tires on both sides. They hinged (floated) up and sideways away from the tires and over the water when in the water. Don't know what material they were made of. but they obviously increased the surface area in the water (displacement) and probably worked to stabilize the Kid in the water. If I can find the picture I'll post it. Thats not a bad idea because they go back down when out of the water like fenders so they don't greatly increase the width of the Kid when running in the woods.

Marine Foam:
Handi Foam SR Two-Component Poured-In-Place Foam

[LTV KID]

im trying to get every little bit as it adds up before long. And yes it is all about displacement the more you displace the better (in water and in engines) After watching the youtube videos i have been thinking of every possible way to make it float higher. ideas
More air in the tires (expands them=more displacement)
foam in the bumpers
dual wheel kid
Large custom fit tool box on back
alluminum cover for the back (less weight to hold up)
hopefully in the future alluminum wheels
For now they are all just ideas since i am still restoring it and have been waiting for my manual for 3 weeks that shoson guy takes for ever to ship stuff! plus im ancious to get it. Do yall know what all is on it? Sothern comfort kid- thank you for posting the video of the kid in monroe but you should post one or two of your kid muddin/swimming i plan to post some more pictures of mine soon (motor and stuff) but ive been slowing on my project some due to the fact that my garage is getting cold.

INTERESTING THOUGHT!!!! Turn it intoa 6x6 If you know what the chains and axles look like especially without the body you would know this would not bet that hard to do... So i thought about taking the two middle axles out then measuring the hole and bolt holes then welding those holes up. then using the measurments drill the holes in the middle then putting the second from front axle in then buying the right length chain to attach the drive sprocet to it. So all that work maybe a 7 to 8 hours possibly so you can fit bigger tires maybe even 30s. (with alittle cutting and adding to the fenders) _/\_/\_/\_
THE GOOD
more ground clearence
more selection in tires (better mud tires)
Less tires (cheaper)
Possibly more floatation
less chains, axles, rims, and tires (less wieght)
Faster
THE BAD
harder on the axles and bearings
dont think you could use the tracks (maybe possible)
less tires (less traction depending on if the other tires makes the difference)
less low end torque (probaly not a problem with the hydrostats)

[Southern Comfort Kid]

LTV Kid, The optimum floating height for the Kid in water is when it sits so that water is just over the metal over the tires. If it rides higher in the water then that it starts to lose stability and gets more tipsy side to side. If you notice the video of the Kid towing the duck blind matrial in the swamp I posted it is riding lower in the water probably due to weight of the tracks. When I rode in this one it was very stable in the water, even with 4 of us in it. Mine with all duallys rides higher and I noticed a lean to the drivers side with just me driving but I'm about 250#, so I have moved my seat to the center for when riding alone. I'm about finished the bearing changeout and will post videos when I get it in water.

I know what you mean about bigger tires. I went 1 size larger, 23x10.50-12 but you can only use them on the back 3 axles and need to use the 23x8.50-1 on the front axle as it has less space between the axles. 1 problem with your idea to go to 6x6 is that the front axle is actually higher then the others to permit turning and that may impact that idea. Your ground pressure would also go up meaning you might get stuck easier. Remember it weighs 2200# not 750#. I would also like to see if wider rubber tracks could be fitted for my duallys. One way I thought to save weight was if I ever have to rebuild the engine go to a lighter moter like a Kohler or Vanguard 35 or air cooled diesel. While trying to get a motor with more torque and higher rpm range.

SCK