True all wheel drive?

[rodp]

hi guys does anyone know where i could get one in austrailia

You've probably got the same chances we have in the UK, non and a dogs. Shipping from the states would price out a conversion over here :o(

But on a positive note Land Rover (obviously the worlds best 4x4) parts are dirt cheap over here and there's loads of breakers so it ain't all doom and gloom :o)

[Shawn H]

I have to say I love my Argo, each time I go out I learn more about how to run it. In time you will to. For me I like knowing that when I go out with my Argo that I don't need to work on it to get back home. I just like having fun on it not working on it as others are off having a good time. I'll take that any day.

[brebett]

Hi, first of all I'm not saying that the t-20 isn't good. It is good. I had the red driven clutch. I agree that there had to be something wrong with that max 1V because I had all kind of trouble with it. I guess I was unlucky and got a bad one. I bought it new and had to return it twice because of trans problems. Then the chains the 1st year, then, then and then. I finally got rid of it. The dealer was 2 1/2 hours from home and ran out of business. I guess that's where a big problem was, the dealer.
Like I said for my needs I want a machine with a low gear. Even in snowmobile I need the one with low gear. I never go fast with my machines, I don't need to with low gears.

But to say it again I'm not saying that the max is no good, I just talked about my badluck with it. If it wouldn't broke down that bad I'd probably still have it or bought another one. But once you get burned with something you ...

Sorry if I offense you ( guys with T-20). It wasn't my idea at all.

[JohnF]

As far as the practicality of each machine argument goes...

It was practicality of a gear range choice in the design, not practicality of a machine. If you want a high/low choice in your T-20 I can do that but it will cost complexity and weight and probably wouldn't be practical given the intended purpose of the machine.

And you say, "Everyone who says ...

You miss my point. All I said was that you haven't been in the situation where you thought to yourself, "self, it would be nice in this circumstance if I had a higher/lower gear ratio than I now have."

That's a lot of pictures.

[thebuggyman1]

Boy, this turned into interesting reading.
For any newbies out there getting confused with all the personal opinions flying here: Get out to a group ride, check out the different machines, and drive a few....see what YOU like.

Back to the high/low gear issue. There is one drawback to higher horsepower....fuel consumption. A good motor will over come the need for the additional ratiosIMG_0015.jpg Here's a 600# machine with 40HP towing around a 1200# machine......and doing it quite easily. It's also quite fast, won't beat a superchief, but still quite fast.

[jpswift1]

It was practicality of a gear range choice in the design, not practicality of a machine. If you want a high/low choice in your T-20 I can do that but it will cost complexity and weight and probably wouldn't be practical given the intended purpose of the machine.

You miss my point. All I said was that you haven't been in the situation where you thought to yourself, "self, it would be nice in this circumstance if I had a higher/lower gear ratio than I now have."

That's a lot of pictures.

It will cost complexity and weight and wouldn't be practical? Take another look at the picture of what Mike is building. Not a lot of extra weight was added with the high/low gearbox. Also, there were some Swamp Fox AATVs that had a high/low gearbox, and there have been members that added a high/low range gearbox to their machines without lots of added weight and complexity.

And yes, there are a lot of pictures, and in each of those pictures it's people demonstrating how the T-20 provides you the a nice full range of gearing that most folks would desire over a wide variety of terrain. You said you've only ever owned an Argo. If that suits your need and works for you, great, but you really need to drive some other machines out there to experience them first hand so you can compare and contrast them based on actual driving experience.

[Model Citizen]

[jpswift1]

What I like about the T-20 is that you might have to think quick, but you don't have to think much. About 4 min. into this video we're climbing this really, pretty steep hill ( the kind where you take a deep breath before giving it throttle) & I guess the T-20 was in low gear (Shhh..I know there really isn't one), because I wasn't even at quarter throttle & it just climbed like it was on flat ground. Then when we reached the top & decided to open up...I just gave it more throttle to get in hi-gear (I know there isn't one of those, too). Didn't have to think about anything. It just does it. I like that. As long as you don't break a chain, it's 6 wheel drive all the time.

Bridget

No low range, no high range, no shifting, no thinking about what range you want it to be in when you go from hills, to flat terrain? Wow, Bridget......you and Whipper must have some sort of magical cast aluminum box in your machines! Oh wait, so do thousands of other AATV owners and it's been pretty much unchanged since it was developed in 1969.

[JohnF]

I'm guessing this is some sort of hot topic or something. Please go and read what I said; I can't see where I triggered such a defensive debate.

It will cost complexity and weight and wouldn't be practical?

Right. Why would you add complexity, weight, and cost if the simpler system provides a performance band that fits the use of the machine. That wouldn't be practical.

Where is this line of reasoning going wrong?

Take another look at the picture of what Mike is building. Not a lot of extra weight was added with the high/low gearbox.

Mike's project looks like fun. Heck, playing with his machine shop looks like fun. He has a high/low gearbox on that? I guess I missed that. I thought he said it was a T-20 from an Attex. Anyway, adding a high/low gearbox will make the transmission, what 30%,50%,100% heavier?

Anyway, the decision of the practicality of adding weight/cost/complexity is all up to the designer and his/her idea of the vehicle use.

Also, there were some Swamp Fox AATVs that had a high/low gearbox, and there have been members that added a high/low range gearbox to their machines without lots of added weight and complexity.

Apparently then the argument that a CVT provides all of the gear ratio range ones needs with a T-20 has proved false for some users of these machines. And any weight/cost/complexity added to a design unnecessarily is a lot to an engineering type. Maybe this is where our conversation has strayed.

And yes, there are a lot of pictures, and in each of those pictures it's people demonstrating how the T-20 provides you the a nice full range of gearing that most folks would desire over a wide variety of terrain.

Okay.

All they (and Bridget's video) show me is that those machines fit their use. Cool. The designers can be proud.

You said you've only ever owned an Argo.

Both statements are true.

...but you really need to drive some other machines out there to experience them first hand so you can compare and contrast them based on actual driving experience.

I've driven a Max II. It went to the end of my (admittedly very short) trip and back again. And it annoys me that the Argo steals power to turn. Especially in the snow with tracks on at 8000+ ft elevation when I don't really have power to spare.

But that isn't important to the comparison I've given because all I've done is give the text book comparison of the designs except where I gave specific advice for learning to drive the non-admiral Argo transmission.

I'm not pro or anti any of these. I think longevity proves that all of these machines have systems that are working for their intended uses.

I also wonder, given the arguments of the obviously pro T-20 contingent, why the designers of tanks don't just strap on a T-20 and a CVT? (Well, kind if they do have a CVT in the form of an automatic transmission and torque converter - but that's different.)

Seriously, I don't exactly know where what I've said has derailed. I suspect it is linguistic.

[Bazooo guy]

I dont think its the t20 that changes the gear ratio
Its the cvt.
Heres a quote from Wikipedia
"A continuously variable transmission (CVT) is a transmission that can change steplessly through an infinite number of effective gear ratios between maximum and minimum values."