what would be the most significant advancement in 6X6 or 8x8

[wfo]

i totally agree with you on that they are great the way they are but.....just like any other type of manufature you should
have some other choices like faster engines and gearing and of course suspension..not all vehicles of this type have the
opportunity and privlige of haveing awesome mud bogs year round..out west its great if you have faster and smoother riding vehicles..
its great when you can put the hammer down and run 50 miles of trails in a few hours...SLOW AND MUDDY IS COOL BUT
FAST AND SMOOTH IS ALSO..

[Robinhood02]

well, this is very interesting and enlightening, I designed two different kinds of rubber torsion bar suspension a couple years ago ,it had very limited travel but was designed to take the "sharp cracks" out of the ride , by takeing those "sharp cracks" out it would serve several purposes , first and formost ,save the fillings in your teeth ,ive had more than one filling that i thought came loose due to a stupid little stick on the trail ,not to mention the fact that my back feels like i just got a spinal tap ,or while traveling down a back road you hit a small rock in the road, well your tires cant absorb all of that size rock so it tranfers to the seat and wammo you take another hit and not just once but three times as each of the tires pass over it. and second, with the very limited travel suspension the machine would retain the ability to use tracks, one system used a conventional shaft with a u-joint the other used a 3/4 in thick piece of logging cable for the shaft (allowed for flex without the need for a u-joint) . In either case i did not build a prototype nor pursue it any further because i thought that i had more important issue of maintainance , the chain drive system that we all curse from time to time, if you've never sworn at your machine it's because you have'nt owned it very long LOL !! well for me it is compounded 28 times, because i own 28 of these machines on a rental fleet and i have seven more coming , boys oh boys am i ever sick and tired of fixin sprokets and chains and idlers and brgs AND tryin to keep the tub clean amongst others , but those are the biggys, so i redirected my efforts to a shaft drive, over the last year i've developed a prototype and installed it into two units, both are Max IIs, one is an 18hp unit that after a few redesigns and tweeks here and there seem to work well and the second has a 700 MXZ in it (stress testing LOL) it has spit out a few gears here and there but i think i got that one under control now, my prototypes are a one piece unit but i think i will split it up to become more easily adaptable to other makes and models, my drawings also include an optional two speed worm box incorporated into the input shaft to get more top end out of the units, the design would not be all that hard to incorporate my old suspension design along with it. my drawings are allready protected by international intelectual property laws so i don't mind showing you guys here my old drawings of it ,but i will not post them publicly nor will i produce photos of the final prototype ,if you would like to see the drawings drop me a PM or e-mail me. i would love to get some more feed back on this topic from all you boys here at 6x6 World, MIKE these are not and will not be for sale anytime in the immediate future so i hope im not breaking any of your rules
i hope that everyone that sees this post will vote so we can get a good feel for what is wanted/needed

[6X6]

I picked other:
1) Suspension OPTION would be awesome. It's not something that should be standard, as it compromises the mud and swamp performance, but for those of us who mudd less and blast all out down trails more, it's an AWESOME option.

2) Update the machines once in a while. I know it's not easy with low production runs, but it would be nice to see that tranny migrate under the rear seat of a Max IV by now.

3) More motor choices. I'd of course like to see a 2-stroke option again, with the newer engines, especially fuel injected, they are not only much more fuel efficient, but also very reliable even for those who aren't fans of "tuning". And they still put out more power for the weight, and rev to where only heavily modded 4-s will go. (RobinHood, I salute you for your motor choice, a nice big rotax would make a Max fun )

BTW RobinHood02, How much have you "Beat" on the Max 700, Any T-20 failures and what style/size key are you using on your T-20? I haven't finished rebuilding my Racer's engine yet so I can't say for sure what's going in, but it WILL test the limits of parts, so any feedback you have is greatly appreciated

[Robinhood02]

the 700 spit out the first prototype i built pretty quick but the 700 tops out at 8000 rpm so the top speed on the Max was just toooo crazy, so i had to regear the shaft drive to 6:1 to get the top speed down it now only does about 45 mph and ive only taken it up that fast on a frozen lake , ive done wheelies from an initial speed of about 5 mph ,try it from a standing start and i just bust something . the T20 has held up just fine the little bugger is just bullet proof however i did spin a sproket on the trani once ,but of course ive had the usual prob of shift pins and the dual shift fixed that, oh and it goes accross water not through it ,but it was very unstable
oh and i dont think ive ever mentioned that the shaft drive still uses a short chain from the trani down to the worm box input shaft ,its about the length of the Max IV chain from the T20 down to the rear axle
as for the 18hp it'll be going out on rentals this year to see how it performs with somewhat less than good drivers LOL i'm not expecting any probs but if you wanna find somebody that can break something that has never been broke before ,,,, just rent it out .....

[6X6]

Thanks,
I have been a bit worried and have a spare just in case (Of course a great way to keep it in one piece is to never finish the darn thing )
I had herd about 100hp on the T-20 but then again I'm not sure how that was obtained. And of course in a lighter machine, it'll be stressed a bit less too, and I'm figuring the Max will be no lighter than the Attex.

I'm not expecting any probs but if you wanna find somebody that can break something that has never been broke before ,,,, just rent it out .....

This is why we looked like jerks at my friends shop.
"That's a nice Deere(or any other random but $$$ tool), I need ...... dug/leveled/moved/etc..."
"I can do that, lets figure a price..."
"Can't I just give you a few bucks and fill it up when I return it? I can run that, I'm sure"
(Muffled chuckling) "NO"

[Ronaldlewis]

Hi there fellows, this is my first post here, ive cruised these forums for a while as a guest, but when i saw this post i just had to get in on it , I voted for shaft drive , I think that the chains and such are the most troublesome part of these machines, some mfgs have gone to hydrostatics but it is soooo expensive and heavy that you need a bigger machine and huge motors ,the makers of the hydrostatic units have gone the wrong way I think ,and their machines cost 40,000 to 50,000 they are way to big for most of us, if you can come up with a reliable shaft drive that doesnt weigh too much and dont cost my first born i'm all for it , as for suspension , it sure would be nice to put bigger tires on the Max II but that would take a tub redesign
PS i c you are in AB but where the heck is High Level?? im in Edmonton drop me a line

[Jeff t-boss]

I'd say hydrostatic steering. Sipmler, more responsive, allows for tighter turns/zero turning, and minimizes mechanical structuring.

[Marc]

I also want a suspension but AussieMax is right with the point that this changes the complete system. In my opinion the driver is a heavy part of the vehicle compared to the rest (ok maybe only in my case so maybe a suspension seat would change a lot but not the price. And I realy get rid of the engines, I have my big riding time behind me and only pull out a AATv twice a year for example. But everytime I have trouble with the fuel lines, sparkplugs, carburator, throtle cable or fuelpumps, and thats boooooring. They should build an electric AATV, much less parts and only two possibilities - energy or no energy, of cause this is science fiction but a manufacturer in England once changed a cupple of Max IV to an electric vehicle. And I have problem, but this is only here in germany, i need a roadpermission for every road i cross, and our street network is so dense that I always have to cross roads. And changing a AATV to be street legal is heavy because you need a handbrake directly working on at least one axle, seatbelts, different front and rear lights, brakelights and so on and so on... Of cause they will never change this for the 10 german users but I think a handbrake should be possible an it is useable also for other people.
And I also sometimes miss a good looking hard top, not only to keep myself dry, also I dont want to need to cover it at each rain or snow, but the existing hardtops are much too expensive and uggly as hell. And even it is safe from agressive seawater from the underside, a few raindrops from the upper side will destroy the vehicle over time...a bit shizophrenic from my view or?

[Malee]

Overall I think basic machines price a lot of people out of the market already, particularly here in Australia. I vote "none, they are fine the way they are" just to keep prices at accptable levels to encourage bums//butts in seats.

If i had to advance a machine it would be with optional extras. like springers and better design an economical trans.. I'm not familiar with any shaft drive 6x6 so I couldnt comment.

[Swamper]

I agree with Malee and a few others that the price does keep some people out of owning a new or close to new machine or in some cases good used older models. So does the lack of advertising. Where I work there is a large group of people with quads. I mention an AATV to them and I get the deer caught in the headlight stare. Several of the guys have mentioned to me that they can buy 2 high quality quads for the price of one 8x8 Argo. And they go faster. Yea but I tell them AATV's swim and can go places they can't especially with tracks applied. Oh well they still come at me with cost and speed. I think that options such as more engine choices is good as is the option for suspension or not. But installing suspension on these machines could be/is expensive. Suspension has more advantages than just a smoother ride. It gives better cross country mobility by having more rubber contact with the ground, which gives better traction and decrease the amount of pressure per square inch on the ground. Suspensions also improve the use of tracks for the same reason. Suspension doesn't limit swimming as much as some might think. Where I work we produce wheeled armoured vehicles and depending on the variant some swim. We don't use paddle tires like our AATV's and yet we can get between 5 and 8 MPH water speed. Doesn't sound like much you say? Consider the smallest variant that swims weighs 33,000 lbs. Perhaps a well thought out suspension seat could be in the manufacturers next design reviews. The driveshaft idea has merit, but would have to be small because of the space claim involved. So that would mean chrome moly or aircraft quality aluminium thick wall tubing. I have used both material as driveshafts in my drag cars with horsepower ratings in the 750 to 1,100 HP range with no problems. But what about the Gates belts and cogs to replace the chain and sprockets. Good idea, but need money to try it out. I also agree with better pricing on the accessories as bundles. But would that mean these items would be made off shore to keep the price down? Like many here I would prefer to keep as much of the manufuacturing here in North America as possible. Hydrostaic drive is a good way to go too. But some say the cost is too high. Well the manufacturers have to build these to a reliability standard so the parts cost more and in some cases weigh more. The MUDD OX is a good vehicle that has a bit of both types of drive train if I am right. The truth of the matter is that these companies have share holders, and they want as much out of their investments as possible. Are these machinse the best they can be? For the price in some cases maybe. Can they be better? Of course they can, but at what price? I firmly believe in the machines whether they be Argo, MUDD OX or Max's and everthing in between. They are better in a lot of enviroments than a quad. Are they the be all end all. Nope, but they definitely have a place and I think with some of the ideas floated here on this venue is a great start. Keep up the debates and conversation. I read here awhile ago that the manufacturers do read these threads. Sorry for the long post.
My thoughts on the subject.
Cheers,
Al