What's so special about the MAX T20 steering transmission? MAX FAQ #2

[mudbug3]

Vt Tech

Looking forward to your review of how the admiral transmission compares to the T-20 that you've been used to.

[Vt Tech]

We've had it in the fields and on a fairly rugged trail. It seems twitchy in the field under steering input. It seems to excel on a rugged trail no matter the speed. Our 2006 MaxII is our daughter's vehicle of choice, Her and I were following the new argo with my wife driving, the max needed input often whereas my wife looked like she was out for a sunday cruise. I had it on the same trail the next day with three guys in it, went off trail, what an animal. If you let it pick it's own path it has wicked traction( still no t-20 in the tight stuff)

[jpswift1]

I drove an Argo with that Admiral transmission and it's still no T-20. Another advantage that the T-20 has over it is the parts availability/cost. Break something on that Admiral transmission (which I've been hearing has happened to a some folks out there already) and your wallet will be empty so fast. The T-20 has been made since 1969 and parts are extremely plentiful and a mere fraction of the cost. Plus they're still made today, mostly unchanged since the very first ones. And talk about nice to work on/availability of support/ease to service......the T-20 is the winner again.

[LarryW]

Im still waiting for the T-20.1

[mudbug3]

I own a 2002 Max IV with a T-20 and a 2011 , Argo Frontier with the Admiral steering transmission. When you're trying to change directions in thick mud this is where the Admiral ' steering ' transmission shines! It's like driving an amphib that has power steering. Its a night and day difference compared to a skid steer transmission. When you're in deep , thick mud and in a machine that has a T-20 and skid steers to change directions , this becomes a major disadvantage. It's EXTREMELY HARD to skid steer in thick mud and much harder on the chains and sprockets too! Where the T-20 shines though is being able to make quick direction changes through the woods on a trail and for racing applications. The T-20 does respond to driver input much faster than the Admiral steering transmission. I,m sure that Argo designed their transmission this way to prevent law suits from people who drive faster than they need to , resulting in flipping over their machine on top of them.

In thick mud like this , the admiral ' steering ' transmission allows the wheels to turn 3 to 1 when making a turn. It's ' so much easier ' making direction changes in thick mud like this instead of having to drag one set of wheels in a T-20 machine that changes direction by skid steering.

[Noel Woods]

Dave:
I think you are correct on your last post. The Admiral transmission, with its 3 to 1 ratio steering feature allows a smooth flow of power to the driven wheels to make very sharp turns in thick, pudding mud. I don't think any machine is as easy to control in the thick slop than an Admiral equipped machine.
JP's comments are also spot on, the Admiral is new, sophisticated, and if it breaks is going to be expensive to repair. I only know 4 folks personally that have this set up, so far, all four have had no breakdowns, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Admiral looks solid and reliable. Time will tell.
The t20 is a time proven transmission, bullet proof, relatively easy to work on, as well as compact. I grew up with T20s so nothing feels more natural than this tranny. Its easy to control, and in nearly all situations works perfectly, the only time its at a disadvantage is in very thick, mortar like mud, when cutting the power to one side even for a moment, bogs a machine down somewhat.
Either tranny, works well. It would be a good comparison to put an Admiral in a Max and a T20 in an Argo. Thats the comparison I'd love to see.

[North Country Tough]

It's going to be a BIG difference and I think you'll fall in love with it. It doesn't rob power, lose traction, and wherever you point the machine, it'll go there will all 6 wheels driving when your levers are pushed forward. Actual 6 wheel drive!

Well finally got my Attex home,and got a little stick time,that said its a learning curve having only Argo style for twenty plus years Iam a bit like a chimpanzee pulling levers for a banana,having a hard time adjusting to it,and lesson learned dont backup till your really use to it that brakes back in forward brakes ahead in reverse is a little hard to get use to, already parked on the hood of a old snowmobile in the storage BldgLOL.With the lightness of the SC and the speed with a novice Attex driver at the helm I will practice in the back forty,More to come.Cheers NCT P.S Never pin it while you are at half throttle going in a straight line without both levers fully engaged,lesson learned.ROALMAO

[kunzmm137]

I have had two machines with the t-20 transmission. An older Max II with very few hours on it, and a Hustler that had tons of hours on it. I can personally say that the Max's t-20 has not given me any problems whatsoever, and the Hustler's t-20 gave me nothing but problems. I guess what I am trying to say is that any transmission will wear out with extended use.

What I do find interesting is Recreative's statement #4:
" 4) Low shock loading of the drive train. Since differential steering doubles the speed to the drive train whenever steering is occurring (as explained above), the result is not only jerky turns, but extra shock and stress to the chains, sprockets, axles, etc. Make any kind of turn on any surface with a MAX ATV however, and your drive wheels go the same speed during the turn as they were when going straight. The result is smooth turns under full power and torque, with no excessive stress to the drivetrain."

I find this very untrue with the t-20's. My Hustler had major problems with drivetrain stress. After every ride, I would find that the trans had been pulled loose from its mounts. I know that Hustlers were known for this design flaw, but even after welding the mounting nuts to the frame, after a few rides the welds would be broken. I would say there is a lot of shock stress to the drive train. Think about it, you are going from full power to full brakes and back every time you make a tight turn.
I have not had the tranny come loose on the Max, but the Max has a much stronger mount for the t-20, and I don't see it becoming a problem on that machine.

To wrap it up, the t-20 is a very good transmission, but there are no maintenance free machines, and any of them will wear out over time. I have not driven any other machines without t-20's, but I would love to give them all a try to see each ones pro's and con's.

[jerseybigfoot]

I love my Max4, Max2 ,Hustler and Blackbird with their T-20,s I also love my 05 Argo Bigfoot. Different rides, different pleasures. Kind of like a harem. Sorry I think i will keep all of them.

[flippy]

unfortunatly this is why the atv's keep on selling.I wish the honda would make a 6x6.It would be a geat machine.I recently took my 1977 honda cb750k and went on a ride with my neighbor who has a harley full dresser anniversary model.I have no Idea what the model is ,All I know is that he paid 26grand for it,well we decided to race and my 750 pulled away and it took about 4 miles of freeway driving before he could catch up and slowly pass.He agreed that his couple year old harley should do much better.I like 6x6's but there is a reason why they are not popular.They are basically paddle boats whith angle iron and sprockets added with a heavy duty transmission and a lawnmower engine.They are fun because they are different however until the japanese deem that they are worthwhile and can turn a profit,they will a,lways be oddball machines that the people who like to tinker with will purchase.I have seen honda 3 wheelers driven through swamps with the drivers having their feet on the handlbars because the water is so high.I have spent to much time on you tube watching the 4 wheel atv's with tracks yanking argos's with tracks all over the place.Any trip to a industrial farm tractor dealer will show how all the newer tractor are going to hydraulic drive.Most people have never even seen a argo or max,once they find out the price and the fact that it has no suspension it really comes across as being nothing more than a toy.I have spent a lot of time up north and most people who hunt do not want to drive a hard driving skid steer vehicle when They are stuck driving tractors or semi's or whatever their job entiltles them to do for a living.add the fact of transmission getting ripped out and the cash spent,a foreign 4 wheeler just makes sense.-I do love the 6x6 weirdness factor but untill I see argo's and max's all over I will prefer to save my cash and consider a 6x6 a hobby,much fun but a losing proposition when it comes to trying tol get any kind of return on ones investment.