All-UHMW, All-Escargo Steel, and Escargo Steel/UHMW hybrid track test

[Buzz]

I'm sure it would help. Might work against you a bit while skid-turning but no doubt it would help. I opted to use grade-8 bolts and turned the inner bolts nearest the sidewall facing thread-down #1 to protect the tire sidwall (belting is also beveled to prevent sidewall wear) and #2 to provide a sharp threaded bolt body sticking out out the bottom of the crosser on either side, just outboard from the ground contact patch. Longer bolts could be used to provide for ice-picks that would engage at the same time the ground-contact portion of the crosser drives over the ground. I used slightly shorter bolts so that they were "just" elevated from ground-contact during normal driving, but will engage obstacles, ice or logs if an off-center approach was needed. The bolts are extremetly well supported (tight fit) through the full-thickness (vertically) of each crosser. They will not tear-out or damage the crosser in any way. The countersunk holes protects enough thread that if a bolt ever needed to be removed and was damanged, it could be backed out enough to "cut the head off" if the threads buggered up. Additional bolts could be used this way directly under the tire if wanted. Machine-Threaded, countersunk fasteners secure everything though and through, super solid and no unnecessary UHMW is removed. The bolts holding the crossers (4) on each crosser are done this way, and they cannot ever pull out of the crosser. I still had problems getting a purchase on certain obstacles even with these bolts located on the track corners. I suppose I might try longer or additional bolts next time. This of course would be for an all-plastic track.

[Obsessed]

Why not just stud the crosser on an adair belted track to compensate for the lack of traction on frozen ground, I would be curious to see how that would work!!

Rock

Good point Rock...works pretty well on my old yellow bigfoot...pretty simple and very effective...here's a picture this winter running down frozen creeks and climbing over small downed trees....



In addition this lightweight, high clearance, flat footprint track has a huge advantage in soft or muddy conditions over the lower clearance, heavy, rounded profile style tracks... Somewhere around here another member posted a video last week of my old yellow bigfoot with the 14.5" tracks and 3" ice cleats driving out of a really nasty mud hole at the mud nationals with two big riders on board!

tim

[mudbug3]

This is a video showing the same yellow Argo 6x6 with 14.5" inch Adair tracks and 3" inch ice cleats driving through some really nasty mud at the 2013 ,mud nationals that the 4- wheelers and side by side riders with lift kits and really aggressive outlaw tires avoided after so many of them had to get pulled out. What I really like about the narrower 14.5" inch , Belted , Adair tracks with ice cleats on them , is their ability to not only climb over icy logs but wet logs as well.

[Buzz]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqAZGSMwew

here's another one. Apparently the machine did ultimately make it out as per the poster of the video. I expected it to move a little better, but I've always said, only the end result counts I guess. As for High-clearance flat-profile tracks.....The cleat height between your tire and the ground determines your additional ground clearance, not the shape of the cleat or the location of the belt. I know it's not new information, but a track with an elevated belt (gear reduction design) only sinks faster for a few inches (but engages paddle body during this time). From that point forward it is at a floatation advantage, especially when loaded. Wide tracks provide floatation. All tracks are going to sink a fair bit in that kind of mud. Sinking to your belly pan is what screws you.

[Buzz]

and I agree, additional traction in addition to the UHMW is needed for a lot of conditions, not just winter. Just vehicle weight on the tires and tracks (especially tracks) is usually enough to go most places when you're light and empty. Add heavy loads or climbing and it's a completely different story.

[Obsessed]

Argo Coal Compressed - YouTube

here's another one. Apparently the machine did ultimately make it out as per the poster of the video. I expected it to move a little better, but I've always said, only the end result counts I guess. As for High-clearance flat-profile tracks.....The cleat height between your tire and the ground determines your additional ground clearance, not the shape of the cleat or the location of the belt. I know it's not new information, but a track with an elevated belt (gear reduction design) only sinks faster for a few inches (but engages paddle body during this time). From that point forward it is at a floatation advantage, especially when loaded. Wide tracks provide floatation. All tracks are going to sink a fair bit in that kind of mud. Sinking to your belly pan is what screws you.

Great video Buzz...I had never seen that one before. Impressed that he got out on his own effort. As he drives more in this type of mud he will start to discover that "less is more". Less throttle that is...you can see that whenever he takes off slowly in a different direction he moves very well... Driver instinct is to give it more gas to go faster...usually works with tires that can spin fast enough to throw the mud off the tires and keep them cleaner for more bite...with a super aggressive mud track like this narrow Adair track if you spin a track fast you will quickly try to dig the machine in...this is where the perfect blend of floation and traction make the Adair pro series design unequaled in soft terrain and older designs like the classic tracks give up to much lift from the lower belting to pull themselves through (this is just based on what I have learned from designing and testing all types of tracks over the past several years) ...on the flip side, if you don't mind the extra width, that will improve performance of any type of track in this sort of test...all things being equal, if you converted the narrow 14.5" Adair tracks with the simple bolt on winter kit to the same width of an older classic track design there would be a even a bigger difference in performance between the two styles of wide tracks, no different than if you did the same test in 4 foot of snow...if you could narrow the older classic track design width down to an equally narrow width of 14.5" the loss of performance would be huge as you might expect...

The unique gear reduction of an older classic style track, and its low cost to build are its two greatest assets and that is what you should push as you continue to try to build and sell that track design (in my opinion).

tim

[Buzz]

I'm very happy with the floatation of our project tracks. Even the all-steel tracks do exceptionally well. With a winter-kit it's a no-brainer. Seems like most tracks eventually sink the machine to the belly if the mud soft enough. But belt width helps. And I think the question at that point is what crosser shape helps to move/paddle you through the mud most effectively. Not the mention the heavy drag/load that can be placed on your tracks and drive system if the mud is very thick. Another reason the gear-reduction design is helpfull. Tim, I understand the overall track length of a gear-reduction design uses a few less crossers (like maybe 5 per side). But the remaining supplies needed to build seem to be very comparable to the pro-series....possibly even more hardware. I suspect that maybe you can fit less pro-series crossers on a 4x10 sheet, therefore increasing the cost of each crosser? That would be a big deal for a DIY'er like me and my buddies who don't have a hundred sheets of plastic lying around. Buying another one adds to the project cost and frequently means having way too many leftover parts. It looks like the pro-series track would be very fast to assemble and may not even need pre-drilled holes in the rubber since lag screws would drive right through pre-marked locations. What amazes me is that people have paid so much for tracks in the past (rubber) that just don't work in certain conditions. So when you think about it, some tracks available today are a bargain, and they actually work well. It does seem that tracks built of similar materials should be roughly the same in price. Anyhow, we've got some tidal mud conditions we'll be testing soon.

[Buzz]

I would like to assemble a track similar to yours just to see the difference. I do like the looks of it.

[Obsessed]

....we've got some tidal mud conditions we'll be testing soon.

Hi Buzz...your correct...yield per sheet is an added expense....more complex machining processes....and thicker material needed for proper function, all add to the overall cost of a higher performance "pro series" Adair track...

As far as the tidal mud...there is a pretty good you tube video called "power of the argo" which demonstrates an older generation 8 pro series Adair track being used in Alaska on an old 8x8 conquest...they are actually using the 14.5" track on small 22" tires to drag loaded fishing boats through the mud to and from the shore during low tide to save the fisherman from having to wade through the knee deep coastal muck... If you can find it it will give you a close point of reference for your tests ...

tim

[guyfox]

Hi Buzz...your correct...yield per sheet is an added expense....more complex machining processes....and thicker material needed for proper function, all add to the overall cost of a higher performance "pro series" Adair track...

As far as the tidal mud...there is a pretty good you tube video called "power of the argo" which demonstrates an older generation 8 pro series Adair track being used in Alaska on an old 8x8 conquest...they are actually using the 14.5" track on small 22" tires to drag loaded fishing boats through the mud to and from the shore during low tide to save the fisherman from having to wade through the knee deep coastal muck... If you can find it it will give you a close point of reference for your tests ...

tim

I do believe this is the video Tim is talking about......

Power of the Argo - Nushagak Beach Alaska - YouTube