I'm sorry but you must not have ever even spent a day on Escargo tracks, they actually do the opposite to what you say about derailing easy. They are very hard to derail even with improper tire pressure due to their design. What pictures would you like to prove this? Buzz and I have both had great success with these tracks due to the reason they are hard to slip off, so your suggestion could use some pictures to prove otherwise.
One thing you have to remember with tuners is that most people buy these AFTER they had issues with their machines. So if you get them in your shop to work on yeah it wouldn't be surprising to see damaged sprockets and chains already even with track tuners on. The track tuners don't repair previous damage from improper setup. Buzz knows his stuff and has proven over times via Youtube many videos to support the benefits of the track Tuners. Do you have any solid information to prove otherwise your claims other then some worn sprockets and chains and even frame damage caused solely by these track tuners?
Also, if these beadlocks are supposedly not designed for tracks why would they put an offset on the rim specifically for them? You better send out a bulletin to all the dealers that already have the Rubber tracks on their beadlock units in their showrooms too. Actually it just sounds like you need to work for Argo directly and be their spokeperson. LOL
Adair makes full steel wheel spacers to work with any track setup, 2.5 or 3" wide. They incorporate the grease hole and they are bullet proof when torqued properly and used with their track tuners.
No offense, but it sounds like you are struggling to understand the concept of beadlocks and don't really understand their purpose at all. It's not simply for low pressure, it's primary purpose is to keep the beads onto the rim irregardless of pressure, not simply low pressure. So no, they are not made for low pressure, but allow more secure low pressure use. I was running 2psi in my tires without beadlocks without issue, but obviously I didn't have the security of beadlocks, so you don't NEED these for only this purpose. By all means they are safe to use with tracks. The only issue they could pose is that they cause a wider tire casing section and would promote more sidewall contact to the track guides because of where they clamp on the outside of the rim due to the beadlock nature. It would just cause a tighter fit and more wear, but doesn't seem like Argo sees an issue with this if they are filling their showroom with mounted units.
The reason track tuners work so great is because they allow in variances in tire pressures. So unless you check your tire pressures before every ride and can garauntee your customer has measured and properly placed their tires accordingly, they will be off. Track tuners help tolerate these differences and prevent further wear and tear. So when you setup your machine at +15C in your shop you know you are still good to go when you bring it outside at -15C in winter. Even more so if your machine is older and you have slow leaks in your tires. Nothing shows and explains this better then when rental companies rent Argo's. They rarely receive the proper treatment at any level. They get abused with rubber tracks and that's where all the wear and tear comes from on sprockets and chains and even bent frames. The reason Argo's get the bad rep that they are so hard to maintain is because of this reason of not being setup properly. Track tuners take half the headache out of this issue when used with tracks. They make it easier to steer and less stressful on the drivetrain so less wear. So does that mean you won't believe me unless I take pics of my chains and sprockets that look like new after 1000kms? LOL
If beadlocks were meant for low pressure only you should let all the automotive off-road trucks know they are in the wrong business making these rims for full size pickups.
Although I do not have time for a proper reply, I will say again how much I appreciate every response. This is an excellent discussion, and I am reading every word carefully. I feel very honored that people with such experience are helping me make the best decisions I can, with the information provided. I will make a better reply when I am not at work, and have plenty of time.
Steve
Argojosh
I'd be interested in knowing where you get your info. I work on Argos most every day and deal with all track types here in Alaska. I've had exactly the opposite experience as what you describe as have countless others. What is your experience with elevated belt tracks, and I notice you've plugged the other brands/types as your preference. Can you at least tell us where you live and ride?
Scimanstev
I believe you are looking for general information on a new machine.my only advice would be to go for the best deal, any newer machine with the stronger axles and new style tire will be great. I also prefer the 10 inch wide tire, even if you go with an avenger. The only other preference I have is to run and elevated belt track of which there are many ways to accomplish. It can be made from steel or plastic,and there are many options for people to help you depending on where you live. Good luck have fun and feel free to fire away with more questions. You don't have to spend a lot of money or buy the top of the line machine
If I was you I'd hold off on buying a set of tracks up front unless you are offered a good discount. Learn the new machine and more about your options. It will come to you as you learn more about the different track options. Sounds like you want a track for the snow so stay focused on those.
I've never run the elevated belt track like the Escargo brand but had the gentleman that builds a similar track in Alaska explain the principles of why the track tuners are a good ideal when running them. You might find a better description on here but in short and sweet terms, with the elevated belt and the way it rolls around the front and back tires the track speed is different than the speed of the outside diameter of the middle tires. The difference in relative speed between the track and middle tires can bind them up. Tuners keep them from binding by letting the middle tires turn at the speed of the track.
I've seen rubber tracks not installed correctly with regards to the tire size and pressures. The chains on that particular machine were so tight it was scary! So, that's why it seems like track tuners would be good on rubber tracks. I helped that guy with sizing the tires and putting them on in the order they were recommended and he said it helped a lot. So, if you get rubber tracks follow Argo's instructions. Again, I think track tuners could help keep the chains from getting over stressed.
I am not sure about how this all relates to breaking axles as I've never broken one since I started running Argos in the mid 90's. I think that probably depends a lot on the driver. Tracks have to be a lot more stressful on the axles so you probably need to keep in mind that you shouldn't drive like you just stole your Argo from the neighbor. I know someone that has broken 5 of the 6 axles on a six wheeler. I'm not even sure what I'd have to do to break one let alone understand how they pulled it off
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I spoke with an Argo dealer in Vermont today. I will wait until August 13th when the 2018 models are released before making a purchase, but I will drive 1:45 on Saturday to visit the dealer. He said I could even drive one a little bit, and he can deliver the fully configured red Argo inside a covered trailer to my drive way. The excitement is building beyond my expectations. The information you all have given me, plus what I have read in other threads has been exceptional. There is a part of me that just wants to drive my Jeep to the Argo dealer, jump in an Argo and drive back home cross country, hopefully with lakes, and mud in the way. I am already planning on driving into my first lake.
Steve