A Frontier and Adair tracks

[mightymaxIV]

I have the adairs for my bigfoot and they perform. I've watched the above video many times and it shows the difference the adair cleat style of track make versus the max flatter style tracks. Not all tracks are the same as a few members here can attest to.
I never realized that was Noel in the yellow argo in the video above.

That was Tim Shafer in the Yellow Argo frontier, Noel Woods and I both saw that video about the same time, I called Tim about buying that Argo but Noel Had already beat me to the punch and purchased it before I could get a word in. Noel has had that machine every since. While we were at the Mud Nationals Noel and I drove right through the awful mud lane on the power line. That hole didn't even bog our machines, that was the same mud hole that stuck the Ostacruiser Sherp.We tried to find that Sherp all week end and never found him. We never knew he got stuck in a hole we consider easy until we saw this video.

[Peterac]

Impressive!

[Buzz]

If I remember correctly, Noel’s frontier is running a set of elevated belt tracks (or what I call a bush track or escargo style track)? A uhmw grouser (how thick?) that has metal blades attached (how attached) to the face of each grouser. You can see how even a narrow (17”?) version of that track style can pull and clean out in the mud. I build lots of those for locals (alaska) with extra wide belts, 1-1/2” uhmw, and full thickness through bolts. You can make the track extra wide and aggressive but extremely easy to drive and skid turn with a width equal to the tire itself. Fixed position guides and no sticks that can fall between guide tips, getting leveraged into tires. Can also be run flat as well. Thanks for any info, it’s been awhile since I have seen that machine, but have always considered it a mild version of what we use up here, simply because it works amazingly well and is extremely dependable-
I hope to go on a ride with you guys some day-Jeff

[Buzz]

Although I am intrigued by the Sherp and other Sherp-like rigs out there nowadays, I’ve always said (and witnessed) many non-tracked rigs get stuck bigger than sh*t because after all, a tire is only a tire no matter how big, and will never compete with a continually laid down “railroad track” or driving surface for your machine to stay on top of. Tracks are like a boardwalk across the mud, there’s just no comparison. And although “any track” is better than “no track”, all tracks are not created equal. The goal is always to get as much performance as possible with as few side effects as possible.
The Sherp is cool but very expensive for my taste. All of our old conquest and response 8x8s with the bush style tracks can walk right through those mud holes while carrying a moose camp.
Some guys are rich though

[Peterac]

I’m not familiar with the terminology your using Buzz. Grouser, 1-1/2”umhw, elevated tracks etc. Interested in what you are saying but I’m a bit to newbie to understand fully,

[mightymaxIV]

If I remember correctly, Noel’s frontier is running a set of elevated belt tracks (or what I call a bush track or escargo style track)? A uhmw grouser (how thick?) that has metal blades attached (how attached) to the face of each grouser. You can see how even a narrow (17”?) version of that track style can pull and clean out in the mud. I build lots of those for locals (alaska) with extra wide belts, 1-1/2” uhmw, and full thickness through bolts. You can make the track extra wide and aggressive but extremely easy to drive and skid turn with a width equal to the tire itself. Fixed position guides and no sticks that can fall between guide tips, getting leveraged into tires. Can also be run flat as well. Thanks for any info, it’s been awhile since I have seen that machine, but have always considered it a mild version of what we use up here, simply because it works amazingly well and is extremely dependable-
I hope to go on a ride with you guys some day-Jeff

Yes Noel is running a set of what I call old style Adair hybrid tracks with a metal plate about 1/8 inch thick attached to every second or third grouser but I have no idea how thick the grousers are. Pertaining to old style verses new style I have run with a least 10 machines with the new style narrower tracks and Noel with the Hybrids and I could see no notable difference in mud performance, the only difference I observed was that it seemed the old style tracks weren't quite as fast in the water and that the old style tracks required track turners and noticeably geared Noel's machine down.


Added: 14:14 hours Tim stopped making the old style tracks because a lot of people didn't like them. Some folks said they geared the machine down to much and limited the top speed, other didn't like having to put track tuners on their 8x8's. When I was at the Mud Nationals Tim gave a set of the old style tracks to a Big Foot Owner to try out. Two days later I saw the owner of the Big Foot loading those tracks in the back of Tim's machine. He had already reinstalled his set of the new style tracks. I asked the Big Foot owner what he was doing and he said he didn't like anything about the old style.

The Tracks you Refer to would probably work really well on my 950SX because that big Argo is just to fast anyway. I considered the old style tracks but if some thing happens in the bush and you lose a track you only have two wheels driving you on the non tracked side. This has happened to Noel once and he said it was a bitch getting his machine back to camp with only the back and rear wheels driving the machine on the non tracked side.

I have heard you say you can run these tracks with out tuners but I would hesitant to do that (I would be afraid of possible damage to my chains axles and bearings) but if you think it can be done I might consider it at some time in the future.

What I want is what works for me and I am always open to something that might work a little better.

[Buzz]

appreciate the info on the adair version of some of these tracks. An easy solution to avoid track tuners (and gain reliability/redundancy in the event of a thrown track or axle/bearing problem) is to simply run a very wide Elevated belt half-track, or set of half tracks on each side (Quad Tracks) similar to the set up some commercial machines use. Some added benefits are that a machine set up this way turns the easiest of any set up available, requires the least amount of power, is less expensive, and if quad tracks are utilized, paddles can be put on the rear-most track only (the track around axles 3/4) which rides much further out of the water. I would challenge anyone to throw an elevated belt half track. I do think it’s virtually impossible, and I have tested it extensively. I have another gentleman who wants to trade-in his Adair pro-series tracks for a more specific Bush Track set up, so we’ll see if we can get some video comparison. I used to have a couple sets of those around the shop at one point in time, but not for awhile.

[Buzz]

What’s the status of getting track tuners from Adair? It’s a simple idler hub similar to any meat wagon or boat trailer axle, but I’ve always sent people to Adair to purchase them.

[mightymaxIV]

I have Questions Buzz: Are Your grousers an 1 /12 wide? Do you put extra Grousers on your mud tracks? Are the grousers closer together? Does your mud track swim (pretty well?)(fair) (better than Adair's). How much of top speed do you lose using your mud tracks? Does your system work without track tuners and if so will they tear up your chains? Bearings? Sprockets?

[john swenson]

hey guys...great discussion on tracks , etc. as i said back awhile on here , i've been running half tracks on my max 2 highboy lately and for me than seem to perform as good or better than the full tracks i ran . as buzz said , it seems like it would be much harder to throw off one. and i definately have more power and it really turns well . looking forward to trying them at busco in some good mud in the future . johnboy va.