I am not trying to start a conflict here, but I would like to know what the pros and cons are for the T-20 and the new Argo transmission.
Is there really that much difference in capabilities to have the transmission as the decision making factor is machine selection?
If you would like to compare the facts of each transmission, I can tell you that the T-20 has been around for nearly 40 years and it would be much cheaper and easier to get parts for first of all. I can tell you from my personal experiences, out of the nearly 20 machines that I have owned over the years, I never had a T-20 go bad on me. The T-20 is a true non-differential full time 6 wheel drive transmission and there have been hundreds of thousands of them sold over the years in a variety of machines from Max, Attex, Hustler, and even not so common machines like the Sears Sportster. I have had T-20's apart from 1970 and the only thing I did to them was put in new O-ring plunger seals and main case gaskets, which is a couple bucks. I picked up machines that were totally BEAT beyond repair, frames bent, and rusted, bodies cracked and demolished, engines blown up, and when I took the T-20 out and inspected it, the unit was still like new inside. Just some food for thought.
If you would like my opinion, I would buy any T-20 machine like a Max, Attex, or Hustler, and Im quite certain that you would be extremely pleased with the performance and reliability of the T-20 in those machines.
"Looks like you have a problem with your 4 wheeler........you're missin' two wheels there"
The new argo transmission is just a refined version of the old one. I wouldn't base a buy on the trans alone, but the whole machine. The new Frontier, wheelbase and tires that wrap around stuff, I've seen it walk up out of a steep creek bank hardly spinning a tire, although the differential was working... the max II that followed, all 6 wheels spinning with it's true all wheel drive, could not make the climb. In fact it rolled over backwards. The max II owner now has a frontier and said he's never missed the II since. In a roundy round race in the sand, the maxII's t20 put the hurt on the frontier though. Argo still eats power in turns, needs to be overcome with HP.
The best way to decide is probably to drive both machines. It is all in your preference. This could be discussed all day long. Also, A LOT of driving these machines is based on how good the person is behind the sticks. Good luck with your search.
"Looks like you have a problem with your 4 wheeler........you're missin' two wheels there"
[the max II that followed, all 6 wheels spinning with it's true all wheel drive, could not make the climb. In fact it rolled over backwards. ] /QUOTE]
Roger,
The main reason the Max II rolled over backwards :
1: Lack of wheel base length ( I,m sure a good driver in a Max IV could have climbed that same creek bank , just as easy as the Argo Fronteer did. Because in a Max IV , you can put all of your weight over the front wheels to greatly lessen roll over , and also gain maximum traction when climbing steep hills.
Brandon Price and Troy both have Max dealerships , and either one of them in a Max IV could have easily climbed that same creek bank with no problem , I,m sure.
2: The Max II stilll had a lot of water left in the lower tub from coming out of the long culvert earlier, and splashing into the water. This caused a lot of water to over flow into the lower tub of the Max II.
3: If you have a short wheel base machine , such as a Max II , that is partially filled with water,,water will then transfer to the rear of the tub, when climbing any incline.
The steep creek bank that the Max II tried to climb , had exposed tree roots at the top. At the extreme angle the Max II was in,,this caused all of the water left in the tub , to transfer to the back of the machine.
If you add the short wheel base of the Max II,, with a few gallions of water in the lower tub,, this makes for a very umbalanced machine , when trying to climb any hill.
Last edited by mudbug3; 10-20-2007 at 03:43 AM.
I did a poor job of trying to get my point across, and made the max and the t20 sound inferior. What I wanted to get across is that, the "full time six wheel drive of the t20" vs the "argo 3 wheel drive" argument doesn't mean what it used to since the improvements of the frontier, wheelbase, tires, engine. Mostly tires.
I see baker hill, T-20 I think I saw T-15 but I do not see the name for the Argo Trans.
I also do not see how Argo can claim it has continues torque to ALL axles when all you guys say it does not.
This is what I found from a Google search tiring to find the name for the Argo style transmission
" For safety and ease of handling, the ARGO steering transmission provides continuous torque to all axles. Skid steering, operated by two hand-controlled ..."
Transmission
Also new just for the Avenger is a new gear box. While the difference is noticeable on the outside the real improvements show in the mud. Belt-driven, Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) maximizes engine power to the transmission with high and low range forward, neutral and reverse, compactly housed with an efficient planetary differential that puts power to all wheels for optimum performance in challenging terrain
housed with an efficient planetary differential that puts power to all wheels for optimum performance in challenging terrain
Argo Avenger 8x8 Review
Last edited by Robio_8x8; 01-28-2008 at 08:56 PM.
Why do we waste tax money on bridges and roads when we can all just drive AATVs
Robio,
There was a video on a dealership site that had an Argo with all the wheels on one side in the air. He put it in forward gear and gave it some gas. Only the wheels in the air moved. (I wish I could find the site it was a long time ago though). You couldn't do that with a T-20. I'm not sure if the newer Argo Trans are better. With that said I don't think I've seen any place an Argo can't go that a Max can. Like Roger said look at the whole machine and not just one part. Just my 2cents
Originally Posted by micmac
Mike, I saw that video on the net a couple years back too, but recently when I came across it again it wouldnt play for some reason. This is an excellent demonstration to see.
About the Argo transmission vs. the T-20, we could talk about it all day long and not get anywhere. I have seen the bennifits of true all wheel drive with the T-20 in the many machines I have owned over the years and I, as well as many others know what it is capable of. But if anyone wants to see this in action, just come and watch/ride/or drive one of my T-20 machines (from a newer Max to a vintage Attex) at the next group ride and you will see what it can do.
"Looks like you have a problem with your 4 wheeler........you're missin' two wheels there"
"the ARGO steering transmission provides continuous torque to all axles"
well that's probably factual. All axles have the same torque applied. The ones in the air have the same torque applied as the ones on the groundif you think about it. Why not just say they're 6 or 8 wheel drive. A lot of people ask me how many wheels are powered, as if some might just be along for the ride.
To Invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. (Thomas Edison)
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