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Well, I could not take it any longer. With all the discussion about the wonders of steel as a traction aid and different track designs incorporating steel grousers of some sort I decided to throw caution to the wind. Never mind anything like hoses, extension cords, small children or nude sun bathers who might be lying around in the yard, I'll give this steel idea a chance. Having had good results with my Adair 18.5" Mud and Snow tracks on my Max IV decided to try Adair's Pro Series tracks with their most aggressive Snow and Ice kit. Here is a picture of the Mud and Snow tracks compared to the Pro Series with the Ice and Snow cleat kit.
The Pro Series tracks use rubber belting and a thicker UHMW grouser than my Mud and Snow tracks did. The Ice and Snow cleats are added to the outer belt along with another belt for support and more floatation.
The Ice and Snow kit is designed for ice and snow (imagine that) but also has advantages in root laden swamps and over wet and slippery downed timber. In other words, "Extreme Conditions".
Well now a bit about how I am finding they work. The first thing I discovered is they take more power to run. I think the reason is they do not slip. The traction the Ice and Snow kit offers is extreme. If there is such a thing as too much traction I have discovered it. I have a 13 tooth gear on the T20 and my Kohler 25hp engine worked pretty good with the Mud and Snow tracks but sort of laid down when the tracks would grab and try to pull the machine vertical. Fortunately for me the new Kohler 29hp EFI engine bolts right in, connects with three wires and has tons more power and torque and there is a supply of them not too far from where I live.
Here is a video of climbing a pretty steep dirt pile to test the power.
(even I'm not crazy enough to go over this one)
Next stop was the Mudd-Ox proving grounds pond. I hit the shallow end and tried to climb the under cut banks. Matt got out an 8x8 so you could get an idea of why the 6x6 Max needs more power for a given obstacle. My Max literally grabs the bank and pulls itself out. The traction and power is amazing. You will see how the 8x8 is able push and pull which takes far less power and traction. Try to keep this fact in mind as you watch my tests.
Wet logs are often something that is cited as something a UHMW track cannot tackle. Well its not snow or ice but this little mud hole is typical of what I drive in and the conditions I enjoy. note how much spinning you see my tracks do, or not do I should say.
Now how about some big logs. Again Matt used the 8x8 to show how it uses it's longer wheelbase to it's advantage. The camera angle does not really show it but the last log I go over is bigger around than the height of my tires.
And yes they they swim with the Ice and Snow kit installed, not fast, but OK. Here I am in the deeper test pond.
Now before anyone thinks these things are the next best thing to sliced bread you need to BE AWARE these are a destructive traction aid. Here are pictures of the cement and trailer bed after moving around very little.
This kit is for extreme conditions in my opinion. For the person who rarely transports their machine, keeps it in a shed with a dirt floor does not care about what is destroyed by the steel cleat. I am guessing Ice and snow performance will be great for the person who only uses it when the ground is covered with ice and snow. It is NOT for everybody, I'm not even super sure I will leave it on year round like I did my Mud and Snow tracks.
The cool part about this design is it is OUTSIDE the body. If you need the traction of the steel, It is nice that it is not near your tub to do damage. Also this is a kit that can be removed leaving you with a very compact all UHMW track.
I'm off to the Tamarack swamp in a few weeks with a number of other forum members for Doug's first annual Swamp Run. look for more videos here and on it's event thread.
Keith.
Last edited by kghills; 04-15-2014 at 11:18 PM.
ADAIR TRACKS, WITHOUT 'EM YOUR JUST SPINNING YOUR WHEELS
REMEMBER KIDS, THE FIRST "A" in AATV STANDS FOR AMPHIBIOUS
Thanks for the vids! although the areas you ride in don't seem very extreme maybe that's why it may not warrant you having traction aids, in the summer at least.
An elevated belt design would gear your machine down giving you a lot more power when needed.
thanks for the vids keith. What? Thanks..for...the..vids...keith. Man that thing is loud. Sounds great though.
You're right, notched or pointed ice cleats or even bolt heads can damage cement floors. Something to think about anyway.
Thanks again
6x6's are more likely to tip over on end during steep climbs. 8x8's still require just as much power on very steep climbs or over obstacles. It just takes more of an obstacle to require it. Lesser obstacles are challenging for 6x6's. The stablily of a longer wheelbase is a very important thing.
Looks like you are ready now Kieth! Plenty of power,and all the aggression that you need.I can't wait to see what that thing does when you get out here!
Hey Keith great videos...was that one of Mudd-Ox's new tall tub machine with big tires? Looked like it was super fast in the water...I had a chance this afternoon to play on a new 6x6 HD with the 26x16x12 tires and it flat out flies on the water. Mike will probably try to post a video to YouTube sometime when we get a chance. BTW. I agree with Rock...your machine makes that all look pretty easy. I think you would of had some trouble on the steep sandy bank of that pond with a narrow 14.5" track...I'm guessing from experience it might of augured into the sand and taken a couple of tries to get up it like the big machine did...I'm guessing the other stuff would have been pretty easy for your narrow setup. Looking forward to doing more comparison testing at Fox Valley Argo's swamp ride and am looking forward to watching your machine follow Doug's big HDI around in his back yard! Thanks for sharing your fun with all of us!
thanks for the vids keith. What? Thanks..for...the..vids...keith. Man that thing is loud. Sounds great though.
You're right, notched or pointed ice cleats or even bolt heads can damage cement floors. Something to think about anyway.
Thanks again
6x6's are more likely to tip over on end during steep climbs. 8x8's still require just as much power on very steep climbs or over obstacles. It just takes more of an obstacle to require it. Lesser obstacles are challenging for 6x6's. The stablily of a longer wheelbase is a very important thing.
I agree with Buzz... A 6x6 (especially a rear engine one) has to get almost vertical to tip it's weight over a steep incline...the longer wheelbase machines would surly exert less effort at a flatter angle and probably require less traction also to conquer the same obstacle...your two videos were probably some of the most straight up and down stuff I've watched...you've got more guts than I do :-/
Well, I could not take it any longer. With all the discussion about the wonders of steel as a traction aid and different track designs incorporating steel grousers of some sort I decided to throw caution to the wind. Never mind anything like hoses, extension cords, small children or nude sun bathers who might be lying around in the yard, I'll give this steel idea a chance. Having had good results with my Adair 18.5" Mud and Snow tracks on my Max IV decided to try Adair's Pro Series tracks with their most aggressive Snow and Ice kit. Here is a picture of the Mud and Snow tracks compared to the Pro Series with the Ice and Snow cleat kit.
The Pro Series tracks use rubber belting and a thicker UHMW grouser than my Mud and Snow tracks did. The Ice and Snow cleats are added to the outer belt along with another belt for support and more floatation.
The Ice and Snow kit is designed for ice and snow (imagine that) but also has advantages in root laden swamps and over wet and slippery downed timber. In other words, "Extreme Conditions".
Well now a bit about how I am finding they work. The first thing I discovered is they take more power to run. I think the reason is they do not slip. The traction the Ice and Snow kit offers is extreme. If there is such a thing as too much traction I have discovered it. I have a 13 tooth gear on the T20 and my Kohler 25hp engine worked pretty good with the Mud and Snow tracks but sort of laid down when the tracks would grab and try to pull the machine vertical. Fortunately for me the new Kohler 29hp EFI engine bolts right in, connects with three wires and has tons more power and torque and there is a supply of them not too far from where I live.
Here is a video of climbing a pretty steep dirt pile to test the power.
(even I'm not crazy enough to go over this one)
Next stop was the Mudd-Ox proving grounds pond. I hit the shallow end and tried to climb the under cut banks. Matt got out an 8x8 so you could get an idea of why the 6x6 Max needs more power for a given obstacle. My Max literally grabs the bank and pulls itself out. The traction and power is amazing. You will see how the 8x8 is able push and pull which takes far less power and traction. Try to keep this fact in mind as you watch my tests.
Wet logs are often something that is cited as something a UHMW track cannot tackle. Well its not snow or ice but this little mud hole is typical of what I drive in and the conditions I enjoy. not how much spinning you see my tracks do, or not do I should say.
Now how about some big logs. Again Matt used the 8x8 to show how it uses it's longer wheelbase to it's advantage. The camera angle does not really show it but the last log I go over is bigger around than the height of my tires.
Now before anyone thinks these things are the next best thing to sliced bread you need to BE AWARE these are a destructive traction aid. Here are pictures of the cement and trailer bed after moving around very little.
This kit is for extreme conditions in my opinion. For the person who rarely transports their machine, keeps it in a shed with a dirt floor does not care about what is destroyed by the steel cleat. I am guessing Ice and snow performance will be great for the person who only uses it when the ground is covered with ice and snow. It is NOT for everybody, I'm not even super sure I will leave it on year round like I did my Mud and Snow tracks.
The cool part about this design is it is OUTSIDE the body. If you need the traction of the steel, It is nice that it is not near your tub to do damage. Also this is a kit that can be removed leaving you with a very compact all UHMW track.
I'm off to the Tamarack swamp in a few weeks with a number of other forum members for Doug's first annual Swamp Run. look for more videos here and on it's event thread.
Keith.
I put two old conveyor belt strip down no my trailer deck to protect it from the crossers on the channel track. Otherwise they would just tear it to bits. Its working out fine so fare.
Love the video you have posted. Nice job you'd done
Fine video between Keith and Matt. I enjoyed seeing both machines exhibiting their strong traits. It did look a bit dicey seeing the Max4 teetering over the logs. Good points made as well on the balance between 6x6 and longer wheel based 8x8s.
If that 29hp makes that Max4 run around like it does, I can't even imagine what the engine will do in a Max2 or Buffalo. Fine bit of engineering there to get the big Kohler in a Max. Makes me wonder what other engines will work?
Keith, your machine looks really nice and sounds just beautiful, I want to thank you for taking the time to film your machine in some nasty areas and then posting the videos up.
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Originally Posted by Buzz
