thank you Shotgun
Patenteux
thank you Shotgun
Patenteux
I always try to picture most material things in life as a tool to get something done, three things to think of: performance, cost, versatility. This way you can access it without bias. Example take a short handle spade and a long handle spade, both are made for digging, one is slightly better than another for a certain job, that is why both are made. With the modern belted tracks they all are very good, each one has slight advantages and disadvantages in certain situations. Some advantages are obvious, others not(raised belt vs non). My opinion is: a steel grouser will handle rock and climbing logs better than a UHMW grouser, the somewhat reduced weight and design of the UHMW crosser will preform better in peanut butter mud and swimming. The Chanel Tracks in my opinion is not the BEST at any one task but quite good at all of them and when I was checking prices when I got mine, the Chanel tracks blew everyone else away on price(also an advantage in my mind). There is a ton of info on each track on this forum, take time to read through it put aside some of the fluff and them make an informed decision on what will work for you. One more thing to consider is what modifications can be done to each style track to enhance it for further performance in different applications(could save money down the line). Hope this helps!!!
Last edited by SHOTGUN; 02-08-2016 at 12:00 PM.
Well said shotgun,every track has its advantages and disadvantages.
escorgot track, 1side.jpgweighing escargot track.jpgbusted frontier with 60 hours.jpgescargot track splice.jpgOriginally Posted by Buzz
Lets keep it fair. I know it's a shackle track thread, and I know it's your job to market what you sell, but you gotta keep everything on the up and up.
Your track comparison weights are incorrect by a long shot, even for escargo
You sell and market the pro-series tracks and are a 6x6world.com site vendor or sponsor best I can tell, so it's probably okay?
What does a pro-series or shackle track weigh, and what is the cost (probably varies by model)?
For comparison, a 19" wide channel track for a conquest 8x8 is 97 lbs. Moving to an 21-21" avenger track adds maybe 10-15 lbs.
The lowest possible price point with the best possible performance should be the goal of any track. Wear life of ground-contact surface is certainly one factor though and I believe the one that was in question
I get the impression (via the website) that the shackle tracks are more expensive than the pro-series. What is the main benefit to running shackles vs. rubber belting on a ground-level flat-belted track such as the pro-series?
For clarification the channel and escargo style tracks are "elevated-belt" tracks.
Here is one side of a set of escargot tracks,it weighs 175lbs.
Here is the unit that the tracks came off of,a frontier 8x8 with 60 hours on. Before I bought this unit, two bearings where replaced,along with the drive clutch.....in 60 hours!?
After running this unit a bit, and getting up to operating temp.,it was determined that the motor was run very hot for an extended period of time(overheated)and glassed up the cylinder walls,along with other issues.I ended up putting a brand new motor in this.
Last edited by Fox Valley Argo Sales; 02-09-2016 at 03:06 PM.
I value everyone's input on this site and for the most part everyone realizes that as our sport is so small that to some extent we need to all get along. I do not think the last post is fair or entirely accurate. There are several things that will glaze cylinders, there are several things that will make an engine overheat, there is no reason the weight of the track would take out bearings or add load(raised belt style gives gear reduction). Was the clutch defective and add to the other problems? Was the driver not doing checks and maintenance or aware that the engine was overheating? There is a lot of variables and in my opinion the driver responsibility is some what a factor in the above scenario. I would love to have the money to get all the tracks and get seat time to see where every one really shines, but that will most likely never happen. To everyone lets help each other out as much as possible to further the sport and keep this enjoyable.
Too funny FoxValley- I get the impression you're trying to blame the tracks.
No other factors at play?
There are lots and lots of folks running the escargo or channel style track up here in Alaska without any of those problems and a ton more hours than that (because it's the best suited "bush track"). Set your machine up correctly just like any other track style. Some people don't need an elevated belt track with agressive traction, but I know I certainly do. We cover all terrain types back and forth and over and over again, frequently heavily loaded, towing, or climbing. 6x6's, 8x8's, Argo, Max, and Mudd-Ox. They're all up here, and I have never heard one person speak negatively about an elevated-belt track. Unfortunately, most people spend a lot of money on disappointment prior to making the elevated-belt move.
BTW that is an older escargo track (they were a little heavier than a rubber track), while the newer ones are not. In years past, I happily gave Escargo input after some of my testing and "hybrid" experiments in Alaska related to their track weight, grouser spacing, and cost $$. Because I share the average guy's opinion on what I expect a track to do in Alaska, and what I consider a good value. To their credit, they were open to input and offered an improved all-steel option. Track cost and weight were areas that could be improved. The possible use of UHMW was another, as a grouser substitute and also to experiment with grouser-profile and surface area and ground-contact patch (width) so long as the track peformance didn't go down or have negative traits (traction, ease-of-turning in certain conditions for instance). So, I feel that altering the shape (incorrectly) or substituting UHMW can be a compromise in performance in some conditions. Not all conditions, but some yes. So it depends what conditions you're running in
I'm getting off track here....
At any rate, you drive on top of any track anyway, so track weight doesn't cause additional stress like you think it does. It's extra weight in the water. That's the only place track "weight" really comes into play. Or when you're moving it around in the garage I guess.
Stress is directly related to incorrect track length (too tight...some tracks need to be tight to stay on which is bad), oversized (larger than factory) wheel spacers, or incorrect tire sizing/indexing set up. The use of track tuners also reduces load and can increase service life of components. If not set up correctly, people tend to "flog" the throttle with all track styles (especially when turning) to get results- Especially if they don't have optimized gearing or a gear-reduction track.
I've done a ton of testing in Alaska (that's another story). I continue to run an elevated-belt track exclusively on my machines because I need the ultimate bush track. I have begun using low-profile/high tub clearance channel grousers. It gives you all the benefits of the elevated belt design with some additional added benefits such as Lower cost, lighter weight, increased tub clearance vs ALL other grousers, and the ability to modify and swim fast. There are also some things you can do in construction of the track to optimize the design as it relates to wheel spacers required, specific grouser measurements, and hardware used. On the down side, it is a very labor-intensive track to build, and you have to do it CORRECTLY.
The best performance with the lowest cost is what everyone wants.
I'll ask my questions again FoxValley:
I get the impression (via the website) that the shackle tracks are more expensive than the pro-series. What is the main benefit to running shackles vs. rubber belting on a ground-level flat-belted track such as the pro-series? Why would the pro-series tracks not be sufficient for all machines in all conditions?
And for clarification, the channel and escargo style tracks are not ground-level flat-belted tracks like the Adair Pro-Series. Instead, they are "elevated-belt" tracks, a term I started because it's simple and easy to understand, others have begun using it as they understand it's recognizable. How much does a pro-series track weigh for an argo Avenger 8x8? Again, I have come to realize that track "weight" doesn't really matter, but I have a feeling that a channel grouser track is probably just as light (maybe lighter?) that a pro-series track.
I appreciate your input even if we don't agree. I like track tuners (a lot) BTW.
Jeff "Buzz"
Last edited by Buzz; 02-12-2016 at 03:33 AM.
Chanel tracks have a site? Haven't found it if they do.
Agrre with everything except steel on rock. Seems like that steel and rock equals zero traction
Why are the adair classic elevated belt cheaper? The grousers look a lot taller and would seem to have more bite to me.
Only had the plastic supertracks, what is an elevated belt?
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