Don't want to start an argument .............but ?

[wheeler]

Something that you can have fun with and not care what others have to say about it. That's my 2 cents to the original question.

[lewis]

Well, i am going to throw a few comments out here for thought since i have the 8x8 Avenger model and have had 2 8x8 previously so i have some idea of what they are capable of. I think
(1) buy a machine that will do what you want it to do. Think about what your expectations for the machine are.
(2) ride withe someone in your area that has a machine of one kind: Max and then a Argo and if possible a Hustler. I am sure that members will be happy to help
(3) Argo's unless you plan on changing a lot of the original design and are very mechanical inclined stay away from the 70' and 80' models,.. parts are a nightmare to find and are expensive. Get up into the 90's, when going with the Argo,s. The conversation previous has informed you of some of the pitfalls when dealing with those year models. This is just my opinion because i have helped many members located parts for the older machines.
(4) The Max, Hustler, Attex seem to be the most favored models that can be changed to make a personalized machine with minimal investment and are great machines.
(5) 2 strokes are not the favored machine in the trails but some have them and that is fine. If trail riding is your thing use a 4 stroke.
(6) this is where the 8x8 comes in: If you have more than 2 riders or family members and want to carry gear etc....the 8x8 is a mule and will carry a lot of gear. Here is where i always reference Rock Doctor transporting a house through the tundra of Alaska. He has the Conquest models and he works them hard. They have been his favored machine for years so watch a few of his videos.
(7) trails, the 6x6 is more agile than the 8x8 but on the rides we all seem to get to the same destination.
(8) the Ago's seem to be a little more stable on the hill climb due to the front engine design but are not as fast as the the Attex or Max with the T-20. This is a plus and a minus.
(9) The Max, Attex and Hustler have the rear engine design which makes the front a little lighter but they have the speed for the hills.
(10) I am not sure what machine you want but going on a ride with a group would help you greatly with the different types of machines and how they perform so prior to a investment going on a group ride would go a long way in making a decision and there is one coming up in April at Busco and there will be a lot of machines there to look at and ride in. You may consider this prior to buying a machine. It is like buying a new car, try one on and see if it fits your needs and likes. These members on this site are a very knowledgeable group and are very happy to share input about their machines.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not necessarily the opinion or thoughts of the management.

Lewis

[eddieb1965]

Phabib,you are correct to not go for a Terra Tiger,they have no real frame,no reverse capability,7/8" axles,all came with 2 stroke motors,variable drive with no trans,weak cone clutches that wont hold up to newer agressive tires. Go with something more up to date.Older Argos are good candidates for upgraded motors,but you will have the expense of a 4 cycle clutch also.Then if it is that old,you will need 3 to 5 bolt adapters to run newer style tires and wheels if the old balloon tires are shot.JM2C

[jpswift1]

I like the wheelbase of an 8x8 for hill climbing. What do you mean by clutches to turn? Pretty much all of the modern common brands talked about here but the Mudd-Ox use brakes to turn.

Larger 8x8 AATVs have a more difficult time in tighter trails and they don't have the maneuverability of a 6x6 unit. A 6x6 with a longer wheelbase is also great for hill climbing.

The Terra Tiger uses cone clutches to steer. There were also other machines like the very first Hustlers as well as the Scat that used clutch packs for steering (just to name a couple off the top of my head).

You can't go wrong with a used max that has a modern four stroke engine in it. There are so many argo models and transmissions produced over the years, I would not even be able to tell you which has what in it. It would take an argo guy that has experience with all the new and older models to point out the differences and cost to rebuild/maintain. A max uses relatively common and universal parts which can be had cheap in comparison to buying parts for an ATV at the dealership.

Absolutely. Drew put it best. A good reliable used Max can be had for a good price and if parts are needed in the future, they're relatively inexpensive and plentiful.

[thebuggyman1]

I'm waiting to hear back about one for sale that is supposed to be from the '70's. I have asked for more info about tires, engine, overall condition, modifications made to it, and so on. My preference, and budget, says I'm mostly looking for '80's machines.

70"s Argo? Keep in mind that you can't compare it to a modern Argo. Most were 2 strokes, had smaller axles, single speed trans etc. From what I've seen, people want just as much money for them. I'd look for a newer one.

[phabib]

I'm waiting to hear back about one for sale that is supposed to be from the '70's. I have asked for more info about tires, engine, overall condition, modifications made to it, and so on. My preference, and budget, says I'm mostly looking for '80's machines.

[JohnF]

What I saw of the TT powertrain ...

I see, I don't know how the TT is designed. There's a thread in the Argo forum called "True all wheel drive?" that has some good information about steering designs.

Any opinions on the older Argos?

There is also a recent thread in the Argo forum called "History of Argo Models" that outlines some of the technical changes over time. But how old are you thinking?

[thebuggyman1]

ATMP - Supacat

MPAV AMPHIBIOUS VEHICLE

This is exactly what I meant. Hydratrek xt66 weighs in at 3300#, supacat weighs 3450 kg

Both of these are too heavy to tow with my minivan. A Mudd-Ox at 16-1800# is pushing it, but I could do 3 maxII's on a trailer at 600# each.

Buy a machine that suits YOUR needs.

[phabib]

What I saw of the TT powertrain looked like it went from the CVT pulleys to a main shaft that had a small dry clutch on each end going to the wheels. No real transmission to speak of. That did not look to me like a setup that would be very solid. Like I said, I have little knowledge of these things so maybe I focused on the wrong thing.

Any opinions on the older Argos?

[amphibious drew]

You can't go wrong with a used max that has a modern four stroke engine in it. There are so many argo models and transmissions produced over the years, I would not even be able to tell you which has what in it. It would take an argo guy that has experience with all the new and older models to point out the differences and cost to rebuild/maintain. A max uses relatively common and universal parts which can be had cheap in comparison to buying parts for an ATV at the dealership.

[JohnF]

I like the wheelbase of an 8x8 for hill climbing. What do you mean by clutches to turn? Pretty much all of the modern common brands talked about here but the Mudd-Ox use brakes to turn.

[jpswift1]

It sounds like a Max would work very well for you. It has the tried and true T-20 transmission that has been relatively unchanged since 1969, a Briggs, Kohler, or Kawasaki 4 stroke engine which are all easy to get parts for and run a long, long time, and parts and service advice is readily available here. If you find a vintage machine like a Hustler, Attex (2nd gen or later with a T-20), or Swamp Fox, those would all be excellent choices. Some machines to avoid, well, there's a long list of those, but some of those on that list would include machines like a Terra Tiger, Scrambler, Sierra Trail Boss, and Amphicat.

[phabib]

Being an engineer I know first hand how all design decisions are a series of tradeoffs and optimizing for a particular set of goals, often at the expense of others. I'm glad to see that this discussion has not turned into a mine is better, yours is trash set of posts. I'm looking for my first 6x6. The use will be occasional recreational use. I don't need or want to go particularly fast. I would be mostly in the mountains so I'm hoping for some snow use as well as trails. I doubt I'd go into water much. I would like to stick to the major brands. I don't mind an older machine. Is there a machine that stands out for that kind of use, or on the flip side, one that I should avoid? So far, I have decided the Terra Tiger is not for me. It isn't a major brand and the use of clutches to turn doesn't strike me as particularly robust. Opinions?

[jpswift1]

ATMP - Supacat

[hydromike]

ATMP - Supacat