top speed

[Joe H]

I think for the most part that is a correct statement as long as you can reach the point of full converter shift. I dont know what the RPM load and ratio curves are for the different springs, and there are other factors such as primary clutch weights and springs. But say you had a spring on the secondary that would fully shift at 3400 rpm and changed to a heavier spring that fully shifted at 3600 rpm. You would lose top speed if you have a engine governed to 3500 rpm. If you have an engine like Whipper's ungoverned high HP engines it would be so far past full engagement it wouldn't even be a factor

??? The secondary will never move unless the primary does correct?

[Joe H]

I understand what you guys are saying, when I made my post I assumed that the clutching systems were working properly I did not realize that you were restricting the secondary to just slow them down. Aren't there parts available for the primary or different angle ramps for the secondary so they could be done the right way and still maintain full function? One more question- do you move the engine forward after installing the red spring to get full use of the primary clutch?

[Noel Woods]

I have three amphibs equipped with the red spring clutch. My tan Max2 was originally clocked via gps at 24mph with the green spring clutch. After conversion to red spring the speed fell to 18mph (gps verified). My Super Swamp Fox originally topped out at 28 mph with the stock clutch. I converted that machine to the red spring clutch, and put the ASX tires on at the same time. The speed dropped to a high of 20 mph, but I figure much of that came from the additional drag of the aggressive tires. My green Max 2 originally topped out at 25 mph, then dropped to 20 mph after the red spring conversion.

I do think that the stiffer settings of the red spring effect the primary clutch from full closure, thus resulting in the slower top end. The longer time at lower gearing is the the combination that works best for me where I ride. I figure at some point when the springs wear the top end will increase, however in 120+ hours since the conversion in my tan Max2, there has been no change in top end.

Its nearly a 100 degrees here in Texas and most of our riding here is in the fall and winter. Next time out I will use the gps and take some additional readings and advise on each of my red spring equipped machines.

[MAX IV Mark]

The secondary spring should have no effect on the top end.

Whipper

I think for the most part that is a correct statement as long as you can reach the point of full converter shift. I dont know what the RPM load and ratio curves are for the different springs, and there are other factors such as primary clutch weights and springs. But say you had a spring on the secondary that would fully shift at 3400 rpm and changed to a heavier spring that fully shifted at 3600 rpm. You would lose top speed if you have a engine governed to 3500 rpm. If you have an engine like Whipper's ungoverned high HP engines it would be so far past full engagement it wouldn't even be a factor

[jpswift1]

I believe jpSwift1 was referring to the part of the quote that said "The red speed probably took the speed on my Max2 down to 18mph, If I recall gps with the green spring put the speed at 24mph." The other part of the comment was to say he couldn't verify the root cause of the swamp fox's drop in top speed due to 2 changes that could have affected it.

Exactly, thank you outdoorsy.

I'm just curious as to how the secondary springs would effect the top speed. Is the red spring so stiff that it never lets the primary clutch close all the way? That's the only way I can think of that would make a lower high end happen. I would think there'd be a happy medium somewhere that would delay the shift to a higher ratio but still allow it to open up when you're wide open on flat land.

I believe that's exactly how it goes, Don. One of these days when I have a chance, I'm going to test this out first hand and get an exact GPS readout and make some first hand observations of the secondary clutch with both springs.

the definition of proven is "having been demonstrated or verified without a doubt" im not saying anyone is right or wrong but theres nothing in the quote that says this is proven

I'm aware of what the definition of proven is. Maybe Noel can chime in and help us out and let us know his exact findings.

[whipper-ag]

[lewie72]

the definition of proven is "having been demonstrated or verified without a doubt" im not saying anyone is right or wrong but theres nothing in the quote that says this is proven

[Don]

I'm just curious as to how the secondary springs would effect the top speed. Is the red spring so stiff that it never lets the primary clutch close all the way? That's the only way I can think of that would make a lower high end happen. I would think there'd be a happy medium somewhere that would delay the shift to a higher ratio but still allow it to open up when you're wide open on flat land.

[Outdoorsy74]

I believe jpSwift1 was referring to the part of the quote that said "The red speed probably took the speed on my Max2 down to 18mph, If I recall gps with the green spring put the speed at 24mph." The other part of the comment was to say he couldn't verify the root cause of the swamp fox's drop in top speed due to 2 changes that could have affected it.

[lewie72]

how has that been proven when 6x6world member Noel Woods says in the quote "I can't really call the speed difference only due to the red spring." that sounds to me like it could have made a difference but not PROVEN !

[jpswift1]

Yep, 25 mph sounds about right for the majority of the Max II's out there. The color of the secondary spring actually does make a difference on the top speed since the stiffness of springs is different. It has been proven by a GPS reading by 6X6World member Noel Woods.

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/transmissions/15144-swamp-fox-clutch-problems.html

"You know the top speed of my two vehicles dropped considerably. The red speed probably took the speed on my Max2 down to 18mph, If I recall gps with the green spring put the speed at 24mph. On my Swamp Fox, top speed went from 28mph down to 20mph but I also installed the larger more aggressive ASX tires at the same time so I can't really call the speed difference only due to the red spring."

[Joe H]

If everything is working properly your max should do about 25 mph top speed is determined by engine rpm and gearing, it has nothing to do with the color of the secondary spring and the difference between 21 & 22 inch tires is almost nothing.

[Old Tucker]

hi what would the top speed on a 16 hp motor.

My go cart would do 40mph
My argo will do 60mph {down hill with the argo plastic tracks on ice.} Talk about dam scary. I had to make a quick run into the bushes to change my pants. What a ride that was just like been on a crazy carpet.

[jpswift1]

it is the green max ii 2008 model it has a 16 hp vangard.

What size tires? 21" or 22" What color is the driven clutch spring on the T-20? Green or red?

[coosaridgerider]

It should run around 25mph on land.