Starter help

[Tom]

Rob; You obviousely covered all the bases. If you hooked the battery pak directly to the starter and it didn't work, I'd say you should take the starter back to the store and tell them they were wrong in telling you it is OK. Did they do an AMP draw test (Amp draw tests are best done with starter installed) when they checked it, or did they just "Bench test" it? Is it possible they sold you a starter for the wrong application? If you know anybody with an inductive amp clamp and a DVOM, they can check the draw for you. While you have the DVOM, do a voltage drop test on the positive battery cable. Any reading above .2 volts indicates a bad cable. I've seen cables that looked good, but after failing a volt drop test I cut them open and found (literally) a string of rust or corrosion that used to be wire. If you can get the unit on a trailer, take it to a service station and have them hook up their starting/charging system analyzer. They can do the test in about 2 minutes. On a small 1 or 2 lunger like ours, your amp draw (Working) shouldn't be much higher than 60-75 amps. ([B]I'm not positive on that reading, so somebody might wanna help me out there[/B]) Also, If either of the armature bearings is bad or misalligned for any reason, it will not hold the armature true when it spins. On a free-spin or bench test there is no stress on the armature, so the problem won't show. When it is trying to spin the flywheel, that shaft will allow the armature to run against the windings.

@ T-boss,that was my next question for him!Good post,I was thinking either to much starter draw or not enough V at starter.Maybe both problems at same time.
@ Gearhead,I too have seen that ground issue.

[Jeff t-boss]

sure didn't, 12 volts at the battery but only about 3 volts at the starter. Hooked the jump pack directlt to the starer and still barely turns over. Actually put it on c-list for sale. if anyone is interested, its on the columbus ohio craigslist site. open to offers or trades

Rob; You obviousely covered all the bases. If you hooked the battery pak directly to the starter and it didn't work, I'd say you should take the starter back to the store and tell them they were wrong in telling you it is OK. Did they do an AMP draw test (Amp draw tests are best done with starter installed) when they checked it, or did they just "Bench test" it? Is it possible they sold you a starter for the wrong application? If you know anybody with an inductive amp clamp and a DVOM, they can check the draw for you. While you have the DVOM, do a voltage drop test on the positive battery cable. Any reading above .2 volts indicates a bad cable. I've seen cables that looked good, but after failing a volt drop test I cut them open and found (literally) a string of rust or corrosion that used to be wire. If you can get the unit on a trailer, take it to a service station and have them hook up their starting/charging system analyzer. They can do the test in about 2 minutes. On a small 1 or 2 lunger like ours, your amp draw (Working) shouldn't be much higher than 60-75 amps. ([B]I'm not positive on that reading, so somebody might wanna help me out there[/B]) Also, If either of the armature bearings is bad or misalligned for any reason, it will not hold the armature true when it spins. On a free-spin or bench test there is no stress on the armature, so the problem won't show. When it is trying to spin the flywheel, that shaft will allow the armature to run against the windings.

[gearhead1937]

Is there a way that the starter could not be grounded to the engine? I've had the bolts come loose on a race car, not loose enough to grind or affect alignment, but loose enough to cause hard starting (dragging). I actually noticed it one night in the pits, there were little sparks coming off the stater. Couldn't see it in the day. Tightened the bolts and problem went away.

Also, we used to check starters off the car by using jumper cables and a good battery, a good starter had a different sound than a worn out one. Just a few thoughts.

[Tom]

It sounds like start drag,to me.What was the V-out of solenoid @ terminal?Was it showing batt.V?The voltage drop to 3V at starter is never a good thing.How is the cable from solenoid to starter resistance?Was the other starter doing same thing,or is this unknown?

[rob63mess]

I'm pretty sure i have a good ground....and like i said, i hooked the jumper cables directly to the starter. not really wanting to get out of the hobby, but just bought a new house and my time is really limited.....i need something that i can spend more time riding and less time wrenching on.

[Don]

Do you have a ground strap from the engine to the frame, Rob? I'd hate to see you get out of the hobby over a problem we can fix.

[rob63mess]

sure didn't, 12 volts at the battery but only about 3 volts at the starter. Hooked the jump pack directlt to the starer and still barely turns over. Actually put it on c-list for sale. if anyone is interested, its on the columbus ohio craigslist site. open to offers or trades

[Tom]

Well did you find the problem?

[rob63mess]

You know, i thought about shimming the starter.....i have a couple of days off coming up and i'm determined to fix it once and for all or sell it. Gonna start with all of the voltage checks and grounds, then go the starter and flywheel route...if it's not fixed by this time next week it goes out by the road with a for sale sign on it. Anyone in the market for a wild wolf with starter problems.

[Don]

'Sounds like an unusual problem. The only thing that comes to mind is one of the same things Malee mentioned: the starter drive not meshing well with the ring gear. If nothing else works, I'd try to shim the starter out a little and see if it makes a difference. Let us know.

[mike bar]

Try pulling it over by hand half a turn and then try the starter. I remember a couple of guys talking about it one time, something to do with the flywheel stopping at the same spot all the time and teeth not matching up real well. They had to turn the flywheel to a diff. spot. Then again,I've been known to remember things that never really happened according to my wife.

[Malee]

Seems like an unusual problem. Its a bonus if you can pul start it easy enough.

Battery might come in arround 11-13 volts but it doesnt automaticly mean there is enough amps to crank it over.

If you have jumped started from another good vehicle it is either solenoid or starter motor (starter motor may not be engaging with the ring gear neatly) eg: noisy - visable wear on your starter gear.

[rob63mess]

thanks for all of the responses...First, i did try jumping with with a jump pack and also with a car, no luck. The motor is the original JLO 295. it pull starts pretty easily. It does have the remote solenoid and i never thought to check the voltage at the battery, solenoid or starter...thats a good idea. I"ll try that tomorrow and see what i get. Mike,Tom, and Jam, thanks for taking the time to try to help figure this thing out....I appreciate it. Any other thoughts, please chime in.

[Tom]

Have you checked the voltage at the starter?Does it have a remote solenoid?Are you getting the full 12v?The contacts will get pitted enough to cause a voltage drop severe enough to cause this problem.If you have the remote solenoid and it's small type riding mower style,take a trip to autoparts store and get one for a Ford truck,it's a bit bigger and can with stand more.

[JAM]

I had a snowmobile engine once that did a similar thing, the starting was hard as it could be I took the heads off and replaced them. it worked fine from then on. I did not notice anything wrong, a friend said that it was airlocked. To this day I am not sure what I did to make it work better, but it seems to me when you remove the plug the compression is low and it turns easy, when you cover it, it's hard to turn, so maybe the compression is higher then it should be. Oddly i could pull start mine as well, but the pull was harder then normal, always ran strong though. Just my experience thought maybe you could make sense of it.