Argo trans kinda Noisy,,

[m350]

And seems to be getting louder, so I pulled the belt,,spin the driven clutch by hand,,,it kinda growls,,,feel nothing wobbling,,So I drain the oil,,,magnetic plug was pretty hairy, with metal fillings,,can see small specs in the oil as it drains,,anyone have any ideas on this ?

I do have the Argo trans schematic and parts list,,,,If I need to pull the trans,,what is the best way to do so ?? 340 hrs on the clock !,,,,,,Mark

[Robio_8x8]

Noise, from CVT pulleys or gear box?

If the Noise is from the CVT pulleys have you tried spraying them with a silicone lubricant? If so cover the belt and brakes so you do not get lube on them.

If it is the Gear box have you changed the oil to 80-90 type c gear oil and whipped off the magnetic drain pug and see if it starts to go away. Does it do it in neutral? check the chains if in gear . If not well inspect the gear box.

[Rock Doctor]

And seems to be getting louder, so I pulled the belt,,spin the driven clutch by hand,,,it kinda growls,,,feel nothing wobbling,,So I drain the oil,,,magnetic plug was pretty hairy, with metal fillings,,can see small specs in the oil as it drains,,anyone have any ideas on this ?

I do have the Argo trans schematic and parts list,,,,If I need to pull the trans,,what is the best way to do so ?? 340 hrs on the clock !,,,,,,Mark

Metal fillings in the oil is never a good thing, but don't rip out your trans yet. Has your oil ever been changed before? I would think that it should have been done, at least, 2 times so far (break in oil changes). 340 hrs is really nothing, but you might have a mechanical failure inside. I would remove the idler chains and do a lift check on your input/output shafts (bearing check), also have an oil analysis done if you can (this can tell you where the metal wear is occuring)
The way you describe the sound it makes "growls" could mean a couple things. It could simply be the sound of "straight cut" gears meshing (normal) or it could be a bearing on the way out. I can't hear it so it's hard to say.

robio_8x8 made some good points, but I don't think the noise would be coming from your clutch, if, as you say, you have pulled your belt and spun the input shaft by hand and still hear the noise.

Both of my current Argo's transmitions make alot of noise, but I would not have described it as a growl, it's more of a whine (gear mesh)

Regards
RD

[m350]

The noise is from in the gear box for sure,,When we first got it home,, cleaning, adjusting the carb, so it would idle I noticed it did kind of growl when reved in neutral,,315 hrs on it then,,I took it for a ride out back today,,and across the pond,, (Gotta love that part ),,and it seems to be getting worse,,louder, growling more, in the 25 hrs we have put on it so far.

When we got it home there was no oil on the trans dip stick,,(put in 75w90),I see some silicone on the gasket,,and the 2 "Plug plates" (#23 0n the schematic) on the trans right side are missing,, with oil up to the line on the stick,, it did not quiet the sound any,,So I beleive someone has been in there.

The 18 HP VanGaurd runs good now, with the belt off today, I ran it,,nice and smooth No weird noise,,thinking if I dont look into the trans,,it's going to have a Cum-A-Part,,a mile out on the trail,,or middle of a Pond, and I dont need that.

Anybody Good at re-building the Argo trans ??,,

PS,,Whats the best way to pull the trans out on a BigFoot ??,,,,Later,,,Mark

[Roger S]

I think you have the right idea about taking it out for exploratory surgery. Mine doesn't make a sound when spinning the clutch by hand. I think the most common wear factor in them is a bushing inside the reverse idler gear. Makes them exceptionally noisy in reverse.

[m350]

Yes,,How it should be,,smooth,,mine kinda sounds like marbles, getting ready to let loose,,,I have heard the whine, guys talk about,,unfortunetly mine has more then that.

Anyone have a actual picture of a 2000 Argo BigFoot (or simular )trans (not the schematic)on the cover side (calling it right side, sitting in seat) showing the 2 plug plates above the rotor,,on mine the 2 plug plates are missing, like I have mentioned,,,but looking on the trans schematic,,,it appears to me that the end of (#6 shaft,spline) is sticking out through the cover bearing(# 16) about a 1/4" preventing the plug plate from even being put in place.

The plug plates look like a 2" freeze plug,,stamped out dished in,,,what I would like to know is,,are they both installed,,,dish in, like a freeze plug or is this front shaft # 6 supposed to stick out through the bearing 1/4" or so, causing the plug plate to be installed dish out ??

Thinking this #6 shaft and bearing's may be the trouble area,,,because thats the one that was spinning when in neutral,,,had my finger on it when spinning the driven clutch with it noisy,,growling ! Sorry for the Novel,,,,,,,Mark

[Robio_8x8]

I retract my clutch statement

[QUOTE=Rock Doctor;13360

robio_8x8 made some good points, but I don't think the noise would be coming from your clutch, if, as you say, you have pulled your belt and spun the input shaft by hand and still hear the noise.


Regards
RD[/QUOTE]

I think the original post was edited or I over looked the part were the belt was removed because I did not see anything about the drive or driven pulleys

Speculating from what you have said so far I would look at the input or out shaft ball bearings. These are not too bad to change after removing caps you just need to remove retaining rings then bearings. The opposite end of the input shaft you have to carefully remove an oil seal. This could be done externally without opening the Transmission cover.

Out put Bearing part numbers 6306-2nse c3 or Argo pt# 101-05

unexposed input shaft bearing 6204Z-C 3 or Argo pt#101-01

exposed Input shaft bearing bearing 6206-C3 or Argo pt# 101-16
This one may require you to change D lip oil seal Argo pt # 102-05

This kind of work is not for your average handy man so you may want to delegate this to someone with a great deal of mechanical experience

The Frost type plugs are Argo pt# 31-07

[Robio_8x8]

Pictures of an Argo trans

Here are so Pictures of an Argo Trans but I get more out of that technical drawing.

I had a thought before you look over the bearings how do the brakes look?
They could make that type of grumbling noise too.

[xrover]

But he does mention the growling sound when in neutral which should rule out the gear box.
Start over again:
- brake pads - how much pad is left on the brakes - they make more of a growling sound
- I see in the top shot that the brake rotor is not perfectly shinny and it really should be where the pads grab it. So I am more inclined to thing brake and brake pad based. That would be good, easy to replace.

- bearings - i rarely heard a growl, more of a screaming hell when one is starting to go, but it could be. But since it happens in neutral, what is spinning in the tranny? Idler shaft?
- how about the clutch shaft area? That's spinning in neutral.

[m350]

Great pic Robio 8x8,,, the bottom pic shows the Plug plates installed Dish Out,,that one thing i needed to know,,Thank You,,Top pic plug plate is dished in,,just like mine !

Ok now for what we found while Exploring today,,we pulled the Tubs apart,,so we could get to it all,,easy,,pulled the brakes,,,after extensive searching,,found the master links on the Idler double chain,,pulled the link on the left side,,,thats where the problem is,,,grab the double gear on the output shaft,,,the thing moves 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch,,around in circles,,,I am like Ahhh-Haaaaa,,see what Im talkin bout boys,,the old man new something did'nt sound right in there !

So the Argo trans is on the bench now,,still together as of yet,,,need to blast it off with the pressure washer,,tis quite a mess,,I talked to a Bud of mine,,,who is a "Master of the Mechanical stuff" lol,,he thinks it should,nt be to bad to pull apart, check out, the gears, bearings, etc,,,see what we need new,,see what we can save,, clean ,,and get it back in order. I am just wondering how many other bearings are contaminated and starting to go bad,,,when I removed the drain oil pan today,,,The oil that came out had a nice metalic Glimmer to it,,not good for all the rest of the parts in the trans,,,well atleast we did,nt take it all apart for nothing ! Later,,,,Mark

[Robio_8x8]

They are not the pics from the Argo with a problem

But he does mention the growling sound when in neutral which should rule out the gear box.
Start over again:
- brake pads - how much pad is left on the brakes - they make more of a growling sound
- I see in the top shot that the brake rotor is not perfectly shinny and it really should be where the pads grab it. So I am more inclined to thing brake and brake pad based. That would be good, easy to replace.

- bearings - i rarely heard a growl, more of a screaming hell when one is starting to go, but it could be. But since it happens in neutral, what is spinning in the tranny? Idler shaft?
- how about the clutch shaft area? That's spinning in neutral.

The Argo you see there is one of mine and it is in good working order just not very clean.
The brakes have a bit of surface rust and you see some oil on the Trans because I spilled some when servicing. All in all the pictures are from a full functional machine

[m350]

Thanks again Robio, for the Pics! The brake pads are fine,,,It's Not the Brakes,,The trans did growl like Hell in Neutral, when or if it was reved up,,and with the belt off,,just turning the driven clutch by hand,,, it growled about the same when driving also,, I just new it was,nt right,,glad we pulled it apart , and the trans is out on the Bench now with atleast one problem bearing found.

[Robio_8x8]

You may need this

Go to page 5 for parts list

http://www.argoatv.ru/manual/Bigfoot%20Parts%20Manual%20698-58-7.pdf

You should take pictures of the rebuild

My suggestions would be to use all new seals, gaskets and see if the outer diameter of were the bearings seat have been enlarged. If the bearing seating has been enlarged use shim stock to correct for this but make sure you centering is good and you do not create leeks.

If you can take pictures and/or video of the rebuild process. It is good reference and it would be cool if you posted it on here

[m350]

Great info Robio with the PDF file,,thanks Man,,the BigFoot came with a 1/2 thick folder,,Basically the whole parts manual for it.

I will try on the pics or video on the rebuild,,will see what happens.

Thinking today, 3/29/08 going to setup the pressure washer(cold water unfortunatly), remove the 18 hp Van Gaurd, from the lower body,,pressure wash the trans,,,then chain up the lower body from the rear hitch, to the
500C ( John Deere backhoe) like a BigFoot ready to slauter,,lol,,and Blast all the Goo out of the tub.
Also thinking this is the time to drain the oil on the 18 hp,,,and plumb a drain tube to a more conveinent drain oil catch location.

[m350]

Argo BigFoot Rather Apart !

Ok, here's a couple of pics of the BigFoot apart,,trans on a hand truck ready for a pressure washing,,
pointing to the 2 "plug Plates" missing on the trans,,(found one in the tub)
pic of the tub with the 18 HP VanGaurd removed
pic of a BigFoot carcass hanging from the BackHoe lol

Monday we will pull trans apart, inspect and make a list of needed parts.