1999 conquest clutch / belt issue

[moos-a-boo]

What is the distance between centerline engine out put shaft to center line trans input shaft??
Problems... bucking under heavy strain as in up hill, steep hill, I run with 3 other argos, we all assist each other in engine, clutchs, all different improvements to argos & like to compare performance in each. We have a test "hill" to compare performance. mine in high range, will not go up unless I pour the coal to it, all others go up in high gear no problem. Mine bucks, burns belts, only on hill, flat trail OK.
History, I owned argo conquest for 4 years, replaced both clutches 3 years ago, moved driven clutch spring to hole # 1, big improvement, tear down primary clutch often to clean, inspect, changed spring last fall, changed belts with new argo belts about once a year.
So, after brother & I took both of his clutches & belt off his machine, put them on mine, it did not make any difference, well maybe alittle at first, I had to use more throttle that he does with his machine, the bucking was not too bad at first, but will be if I attempt the hill a couple more times.
SOOO, we measured crankshaft to trans input shaft. (outside shaft to outside shaft, just reference)
My distance is 16 inch, good running machine is 16 5/16,
Good running machine = belt removal snug
Bad running machine = belt loose & comes off easy
SO, I called local argo shop for info or dimension, am waiting for reply.
Any ideas ?
Right now I pulled the transmission, checked trans & frame bolt holes for oblong, nothing worth noting, or nothing that would make the trans move towards the motor over a quarter of an inch?? I'm gonna put a wrench to the motor mount bolts in the morning just to check something while I got her tore down,
Throw some ideas at me while I got it tore down & can see everything,

[Tomo]

hi ,
not trying to solve your specific application but here is my experience.
I am sure there is an argo owner or even ODG will come with direct answers .
In my experience a loose belt will engage in a higher gear and make hill climbing terrible
I also had a choice of 2 centre to centre distances 12.5 inches nominal
13.00 suggested by another very knowledgable source
U guessed it the the alternate source was correct
A side note is the smaller cen to cen distance was very easy to remove belt TO EASY
The larger cen to cen distance as I have learnt now is more the ""normal "" belt is a little tough to remove

This may help or give u ideas
I would wait for ODG advice

cheers tomo

[JoeMeg]

Perhaps something loose or a cracked weld or two?

Joe.

[thebuggyman1]

Here are some tips from Dayco ATV and Snowmobile Belts - by Dayco

[ARGOJIM]

When you put your trans back in, try and counter clockwise your trans before tightening, I would imagine that 5/16 could be made up that way up at the input shaft. Also may want to check your rpm's compared to the other machines.
You may also have a different geared machine such as one having a G transmission and one having a M transmission, the G transmission is geared lower, which would account for ease in climbs. You could re gear if needed using your housing, But I would be sure to stamp it for future owner reference.

[moos-a-boo]

Thanks tomo, you did have the very same experience.

hi ,
not trying to solve your specific application but here is my experience.
I am sure there is an argo owner or even ODG will come with direct answers .
In my experience a loose belt will engage in a higher gear and make hill climbing terrible
I also had a choice of 2 centre to centre distances 12.5 inches nominal
13.00 suggested by another very knowledgable source
U guessed it the the alternate source was correct
A side note is the smaller cen to cen distance was very easy to remove belt TO EASY
The larger cen to cen distance as I have learnt now is more the ""normal "" belt is a little tough to remove

This may help or give u ideas
I would wait for ODG advice

cheers tomo

[moos-a-boo]

Thanks guys for you input, sorry but I had to put things on hold, family here & fishing, sight seeing, & now I'm back at work. I did get a reply back from local Argo dealer the very next morning, I removed tranny & started cleaning everything, found nothing out of the ordinary, motor mount bolts tight, no cracks in the power pack frame, trany bolt holes alittle loose, nothing that would cause 5/16 of an inch movement. I'll update more when I start to reassemble. Again, thanks for the input.
PS: MOOSE & Caribou season 3 weeks away, AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[moos-a-boo]

When you put your trans back in, try and counter clockwise your trans before tightening, I would imagine that 5/16 could be made up that way up at the input shaft. Also may want to check your rpm's compared to the other machines.
You may also have a different geared machine such as one having a G transmission and one having a M transmission, the G transmission is geared lower, which would account for ease in climbs. You could re gear if needed using your housing, But I would be sure to stamp it for future owner reference.

All 3 trany are MU, good thought tho, am goin to attempt pivoting the trans back before tightening, hope it is something simple, thanks for the thooughts

[moos-a-boo]

Here are some tips from Dayco ATV and Snowmobile Belts - by Dayco

thanks for the link

[Howie]

clutch spacing

Center to center distance on a Conquest is 15.35"

[spookum]

Are you sure the other conquests are not a lower gear ratio???? If they are you will be "faster" another thing to check is make sure your engine is running right.

[Supermag]

Have you compared how deep the belt sits in the driven clutch when not in motion. My 1999 conquest driven clutch holds the belt 1/8 inch above the shives when stopped. If the shimming between the shives are too thick it will allow the belt to sit deeper in the driven clutch resulting in similar symptoms as a loose belt. It will also make it easier to remove the belt. I would compare with the two other machines.

[moos-a-boo]

Center to center distance on a Conquest is 15.35"

.”Thanks Howie, this is what info I got, Conquest’s clutch spacing… “The clutch C to C should be 15.35 inches and the offset should be 2.05 inches

they are all the "MU" ratio, thanks

Yes, my belt sits approx. 1/8 out of the clutch, first thing we look at, we have been running up & down the "test hill" with the fire wall out , comparing how each clutch responds in relation to grade & RPM, mine starts out OK, then starts to buck, it rans just fine minor grades & trails with no problems but come into a STEEP hill & this is only when I notice it. won't have the trans back in the machine for a couple more days, work gets in the way of fun every time. thanks for the thoughts though!

[moos-a-boo]

OK guys & gals, I found the problem. My power pack frame is bent. It is cup shaped (looking from the side) making the top of the trany & top of the engine closer together. I ordered up a new frame from Argo & will take pics of the new & old for comparison. It should be in about a week from now. Like I said earlier, the machine ran fine down the trail for the most part, but start up a hill & putting a strain on the drive train, it would buck (in high range) then I would have to shift into low, where the other machines I run with would keep going.
If I did not have the other machines for comparison I probably would not have known better & just thought it was the nature of the BEAST.
Again, I would like to thank everyone for responding & taking time to read this link. I got the power pack frame out & now just waiting to back to work & the new frame to arrive.
More later.

[moos-a-boo]

Now it is final, the new powerpac frame is in, engine & trans & all related pieces to make it go are in place & it measures 15 7/16 C/C, test ran machine & whala, ran excellent, just had to fine tune the secondary clutch & she pulls the steepest hill no problem, in high range, tried our STEEP test hill in low & I finally made it up without winching where the other 2 machines made it up no problem.

I've been chasing this "clutch issue" for a couple of years, & would like to take this opportunity to share my findings to hopefully save someone some time & money, probably a chance to spend some money actually. So, the bent frame was hard to see with the engine & trans in place, the first thing to check is the distance, center to center between engine shaft & trans shaft, which factory spec is 15.35 inch. this should tell the story.