heavy duty argo axles

[big bear]

Its probably somewhere in this forum. I need some information on Argo axles.
I have one 2011 750 HDi now and want a second machine. Right now price is of concern so I am looking for a 700 or 750 avenger (non HDi) I find the one I have now (on 18" tracks) to be a little slow. So I am still leaning towards 31hp. But I think I can tweek the 700 to get another 3 hp by changing the revs a little.
But now to the axles ?????
I read often that the older machines can break axles over time. I really don't want to be replacing axles in the muskeg. Others replace all the axles with the heavy duty ones.
My question is :
What are heavy duty axles ? Do they come stock on any newer 8 wheeler argos?
Which years are of concern and which years are OK.
I know they all need maintenance but which years does it start to get easier. All info will help a lot. I will run tracks always. I have watched every argo video ever made.
I may even consider the conquests at the sacrifice of power over possible reliability. Are the axles a problem here?
Thanks

[msafi65]

The HD axles have flange where the studs are about 1/2 inch thick. The other axles have two stamped plates welded to the axle end. Your 2012 should have all 8 heavy. Some 2010 and maybe 2011 HdI had just the four corners HD. I've replaced several that the flanges broke off at the welds. All were tracked vehicles. With wheel spacers you can reach behind the tire and feel the axle flange. For any tracked vehicle I would recommend all 8 HD at least the corners. Hope this helps

[philipatmaxfour]

The HD axles have flange where the studs are about 1/2 inch thick. The other axles have two stamped plates welded to the axle end. Your 2012 should have all 8 heavy. Some 2010 and maybe 2011 HdI had just the four corners HD. I've replaced several that the flanges broke off at the welds. All were tracked vehicles. With wheel spacers you can reach behind the tire and feel the axle flange. For any tracked vehicle I would recommend all 8 HD at least the corners. Hope this helps

as well as the 1/2 in. flanges, the hd axle has a far superior bearing. the wheel and flange have a hole which allows grease gun access to the new bearing which now has only one grease nipple. allows more frequent maintenance to tracked machines. Best value for budget conscious buyer might be
750 efi (31 hp.) Avenger (not shown in catalogue but available) comes with new hd axles and same as HDI but old style tranny. just my 2 cents

[foxvalley]

The HDs come with the heavy, larger dia axles, along with a better bearing system.You can put the HD bearings, in an avenger, and I believe axles also, and have the best of both worlds,as the avenger has a higher gear ratio in the tranny,which will give you faster acceleration and top end, but less low end torque than the HDI.
I was just on an 04 avenger,with pro series tracks/winter kit, and was impressed on the overall preformance of the unit.

[big bear]

This is the info I was looking for. It pointed me in the right direction. right to the Argo parts manual for all machines (available online). I see that all the avenger axles are 1 1/4 " but the HD have thicker flanges.
The change comes in 2011 from ser # 30369 on the 750 efi and 700 models. HD part # 810-92 front/rear. and HD part # 810-113 mid axles.
On the 750 hdi models. the change comes in 2011 also from ser# 30369 (same part #)
BUT ! in 2010 it was an option from ser# 28842 to have it on the front/rear. (the parts manual looks a little messed up here with it being called a "mid" axle. ) Watch how the chart flows.

Thanks a lot guys . I now know what I needed. This forum is awesome.
Its hard to beat experience to gain knowledge.

If you need to rebuild an older argo that has 1 1/4 axles, the HD axles and bearings is probably the best way to go.
Now I'm thinking about a bigger motor in the conquests.
I wish there was a 30 hp drop in motor available. There doesn't seem to be motor options for liquid motors without a whole bunch of modifications.

[ARGOJIM]

Here is a pic of the new axles and bearings, as you wrote all machines can be upgraded though pre 94 machines will require more fab work and/or parts. The 94 up machines are a direct bolt in for the axles and the bearing KIT will work also.

a borrowed pic from the site.

[big bear]

Thanks Argo Jim. For more good info.
Also would you use the bearing supports on all axles or just the corners.
Now on "track tuners"
Is the quality of track tuners on par with the HD axles ? Anyone?

[big bear]

With the info I now have, I calculated the cost involved in upgrading a conquest or avenger to HD axles.
Whether its a conquest or avenger needing rebuilding the cost is close enough to say that $3000 US, will cover the cost of all upgrade axle kits with inside bearings and new chains (std quality I guess) Prices taken from a USA Argo dealer website.
If you use hi grade chains add a little more. Do your own labour. Oh Yeh! add taxes.

[nemanuel]

Hello, I just got the adaptor kit from Adair. Mike was pretty cool. I was just wondering, how many gaskets do I need to install on the mid axles? Also, I don't see the purpose of the adaptor on the front and rear axle. The HD bearing flange fits perfectly in the front / back bearing extensions. I am missing something? BTW, I am upgrading to HD axles and bearings. Any help would be much appreciated. thanks.

[Supermag]

The new HD axle is a direct replacement for any axle wich uses the 1" I.D. Inner bearing. (older pre conquest models used straight 1.25" axles.). They are the same lenght and axle diameter. I have HD axles on the corners of my conquest with the standard bearings. I plan on changing to HD bearings as the regular ones need replacing. I will purchase an adaptor kit from Adair Argo to fit the new bearing style to my bearing extensions. If the inner collar of the HD bearings fit in your bearing extensions, you do not need the adaptor plate. Just make sure your fasteners to secure the bearings are long enough to secure the hd bearings. The HD bearings need longer fasteners as the outer housing is much thicker than the old style flanges. Rock Doctor has a great video on YouTube on how to upgrade fron standard to HD bearings. He also explains how many gaskets to use and why.

Hope this helps

Dave

[nemanuel]

Hello, Thank you for the reply. I have seen both videos several times. they are very good but they are for a conquest not for an avenger. I don't know if that makes a difference? can you please tell me how many HD style gaskets I would need for the front / rear as well as the mids? I do know that I have to remove part of the tub for the mids, that's if I don't use the adair adaptor kit. Thanks for your time.

[Supermag]

The only difference between the conquest and the avenger are the bearing extenssion design. The conquest uses 4 long bolts that go from the bearing flange to the outer frame rail to secure the bearing in place. The avenger uses studs on the bearing extenssions to fasten the bearing. The studs may need to be lengthened in order to accept the HD bearings. The procedure for installing the HD bearings onto your avenger will basically be the same as what Rock Doctor did for his conquest. You will need 3 cork gaskets behind the bearing housings to get a proper seal. As for the mids, you can do as in the video and bore out some of the tub to allow the inner bearing ring to sit on the frame or buy the adaptor plates from Adair Argo. If you bore out the opening in the tub you will only need one gasket as the plastic tub will take up the thickness of two gaskets. If you choose to buy the adapter plates, you will need four gaskets per bearing. One between the adaptor and the tub and three between the adaptor and the outer bearing housing.
I am almost certain that you will need to change the hardware in your bearing extenssions in order to fasten the new bearing housing as the new HD bearings require longer bolts or studs due to the thickness of the full bearing assembly.

Hope this helps.

Dave

[nemanuel]

Hello again,

Thank you for the information. Very helpful. I have ordered the adaptor kit from Adair already. I have also removed the original studs from the bearing extensions and will be replaced by the ones from Adair. Thanks again.