Newbies! Questions about tracks, tires and rims, and carburetor problems

[wjross]

Hi There All! We recently bought a 2011 650 HD (23 HP Vanguard) it has 25" tires, and we were actually very disapointed with the performance in mud on our first trip out, we got horribly stuck and need to winch ourselves out. It seems to high centre at the drop of a hat and obviously it needs tracks to be able to go where we want to go with it. It had been sitting since bought new in a fellows garage, with the same old fuel in it and was very hard to start and running badly. We drained the fuel and tore the carb apart and cleaned thoroughly, put high grade gas in it with Seafoam, now it runs fine, but the choke which didnt seem to have any effect before cleaning (flap and assembly working fine) still doesn't seem to work at all?
Any ideas on why?
Next question, we found a set of 18" super tracks for sale used, can we put 24" tires on the rims we have or do we need to change rims and tires to go to 24" to be able to use the super tracks?
Thanks for any assistance you folks can give us!
WJ

[Dozerlarry]

WJ, Don't worry about your first time out and getting stuck. Notice most all of us have winches mounted to our rigs, it's for a reason. You will learn how to drive your 650 and discover that they are really very capable vehicles but they do have limitations. I get to operate almost daily some very mud capable (and expensive) equipment and still get stuck occasionally. Just part of the fun and challenge of riding AATV's. Didn't say where you live but if here in the US, keep ethanol free fuel in it and you'll have much fewer problems. My Max 4 has always been a little slow to start but I put a squeeze bulb on mine from an outboard motor fuel tank and give it a few squeezes on the first start up of the day. Cranks right up. Can't really help you on the tracks. But you're in the right place for help. Some really tremendous knowledge here. I learn something new every day from these guys!

[rodp]

Can't help with the tracks / tyres but, and I'm not having a dig at you WJ, why don't folk put their location down ?? I notice Larry was wondering where you came from WJ, same as me.

I'm on another forum (night vision forum) and it's compulsory on there to add your location down to a city / town / village. No location and they ask you twice to add it, then the throw you off if not complied with. It does make life easier if you know where someone's coming from .

[mightymaxIV]

As a former 650 HD owner that has run the 25" Rawhide III tires with Adair tracks and the 24" Argo tires with Adair tracks, let me say the following. The Frontier with 25" tires will pretty much go anywhere but it requires some skill and driving technique which must be learned. Every machine and tire combination requires different driving styles.

That being said let me offer the following-I drove my Frontier with 25" Rawhide III's into my pond which has a very soft muddy bottom. I got badly stuck almost immediately and it took a lot of work to get the machine out of that mess.

A new set of Adair tracks with the 24" Argo tire was installed and 45 minutes later I was driving through the same mud hole with one hand with almost no effort.

Now pertaining to rubber tracks, if you use them they will require wheel spacers, because the tires have a difficult time spinning in the track the rubber tracks are very hard on your bearings and chains.

A set of Adair 14 1/2 belted tracks do not require wheel spacers, will bolt right on, will swim about 1 3/4 mph (not fast but it does swim) and will make that frontier an unstoppable beast that will make you and your friends wow every time you go through a mud pit, swamp or any other impassable area. I would invite you to review one of the videos I posted of my Frontier in some very bad mud a swamp conditions.

Please keep in mind as you watch this video that in most of the places you see this Frontier, nothing else could move, if fact in a lot of cases they couldn't even get into these areas. Check the mud at the 5:48 mark and watch how this frontier makes short work of a mud hole no else could go through.

[wjross]

Thanks all for the help so far…..we are in northern Canada and the mud hole we were in looks very much like the one in your video lol. What keeps happening to us, is we go down the trails a few times, have to work our way through the mud holes and after a few trips the argo high centres and we are stuck.
We have a winch on the Argo which is how we got out of the hole, we do understand about the tracks and spacers, my question was….do we need different rims for the 24 " tires?
We use our ATV's every day, and are currently facing very muddy conditions here, with many of our trails being impassable on a regular ATV's. I guess we were hoping to get by without tracks, and now find ourselves faced with a very expensive upgrade, by the time we change over the tires and likely the rims, and buy tracks, I would venture we are looking at $5000-6000.00 plus a 6 hour drive somewhere to get said items.
I can buy the used super tracks for around $1000.00, so was hoping these would work.

[wjross]

Well Rodp, all I can say is that is one forum I would not belong to….
I am not sure, especially in my case of what relevance there would be regarding where I live to my questions.
1. Do I need to change rims to accomodate 24" tires?
2. Has anyone had choke problems similar to mine with a Vangaurd 23hp Briggs?

The last thing I would want is my exact location out on the web for all to see….

[rodp]

Well Rodp, all I can say is that is one forum I would not belong to….
I am not sure, especially in my case of what relevance there would be regarding where I live to my questions.
1. Do I need to change rims to accomodate 24" tires?
2. Has anyone had choke problems similar to mine with a Vangaurd 23hp Briggs?

The last thing I would want is my exact location out on the web for all to see….

All they insist on is a rough location, such as city. It's done so if someone has a problem another member can help out if local, without having to go to the trouble of finding whereabouts the poster is. I can see why it's done, and it's a good idea.

You get a problem and other members can identify your approximate location without having to post. Imagine how many times you would have to ask poster where they are, then finding out they're miles away and you cannot help, you'd soon get fed up of that. This way all you do is look at the top of their post and you know if you're in their vicinity.

Maybe in your case it's of no relevance, however Larry asked the same question, wonder why, did he perhaps think if you were local he could pop over and help? I don't know, I'm just guessing.

As for it being one forum you would not belong to, quite correct.

[wjross]

All they insist on is a rough location, such as city. It's done so if someone has a problem another member can help out if local, without having to go to the trouble of finding whereabouts the poster is. I can see why it's done, and it's a good idea.

You get a problem and other members can identify your approximate location without having to post. Imagine how many times you would have to ask poster where they are, then finding out they're miles away and you cannot help, you'd soon get fed up of that. This way all you do is look at the top of their post and you know if you're in their vicinity.

Maybe in your case it's of no relevance, however Larry asked the same question, wonder why, did he perhaps think if you were local he could pop over and help? I don't know, I'm just guessing.

As for it being one forum you would not belong to, quite correct.

(Sigh) New title for Post : "Why I normally do not join forums"…….I guess you likely don't have anything better to do than start a war of words bordering on rude at the end of your post (well done….barely disguised sarcasm), Why is it with any forum there is always someone who, although they have nothing to actually contribute to a post, feel they need to be the self appointed forum police?
I did not ask anyone to "pop over" and help me, I asked a couple of questions about my Argo. Unless you actually intend to answer them, please don't post to this trhread again, I won't respond further, as you are wasting my time.
Thank you for the warm welcome and lecture to this forum…

Upon further deliberation, I actually think I will withdraw my membership from the forum as right off the bat, instead of anything helpful, I end up defending myself for no good purpose. Hopefully the administrator of this forum takes note of this thread. To the other posters, thank you and I did enjoy the video.

[rodp]

I'm sorry you take it that way, over here it's called conversation and observation. As you request I shall refrain from posting on any threads you may post. I will however just say that if you think I was being sarcastic or even bordering on rude you are far more sensitive than I assumed and I apologise. Perhaps it's just our differences in attitude being opposite sides of the water. Over here that would be water off a ducks back, nothing to get upset about.

[Sol]

Welcome the site WJ. Can't help with your question but someone will for sure. I do know I had to take of off my put 25s and 21s with new rims and extensions to super track my Bigfoot according to the dealer but that's with an 18 horse.

Rod I still can't find my car keys. Drive my to the pub and I'll buy.

[mightymaxIV]

Hey WJ-do you have the 25" swimmer tires or the 25" rawhide's? You can fit a set of Adair tracks over a set of 25" tires but the clearance will be very close. Tim might be able to cut you set with a smaller grouser to fit those 25" tires.

What year is your Argo?

If you go to 24" tires you will have to go to a set of 8" rims.

I would a least consider a set of Adair tracks to fit over those tires, give the folks at Adair a call and see what they say.

One thing I can say for sure, if you go to a set of Adair tracks that frontier won't be getting stuck anymore.

[Rock Doctor]

Hi WJ
When u cleaned your carb, did you make sure to get all the little holes/jets clear? I like to poke a little "Torch Tip Cleaner" through, just to make sure to get any Old Fuel Resin out of them.

To run the Supertracks, you will have to go to different rims for the 24" tires.

I do question the "NEED" for Tracks where you want to go. It sounds like you are new to the machines, and IMHO, there is a learning curve and a knack to driving them (I could be totally wrong though ) Anyway, there are ways to avoid getting stuck in ruts and/or mudholes. I ran for yrs through some nasty stuff before getting tracks on my machines, and believe I am a better operator for the experience. Either way, it's always a good idea to have a Winch lol, I'm rambling, personally, I would lean away from Supertracks in mud or rutted conditions. They are not the right choice, but that's just my $0.02 worth, and round that to the nearest Nickle, and you get $0.00 worth of advice

RD

[Rusty-Gunn]

Having owned an Avenger I do have a bit of experience. It helps a lot to learn to drive an Argo. These machines are not true six/eight wheel drive, but one-side drive. This is due to the open differiential they have. One side spins while the other side does nothing. Thus one must apply brakes to the side that spins, which "forces" power to the othet side. In essence, the driver turns left and right quickly and repeatedly. Not always but it does help a lot.
Perhaps this will help in those tough spots. Enjoy.