Argo 8x8 Brake caliper question

[Pumpy]

Hi Chaps.

I've been rushing to get the Argo ready for the Billing Land Rover show on Friday, it's going to be the star of the Northants 4x4 Response team stand (this is a UK thing )

We've rebuilt the whole brake system, new seals in the master cylinder & calipers, new pipes etc. We found one side of the caliper was easy to push the piston back in with new seals using just your thumbs, but the other side (RHS as you look from driving seat) on both capilers just did not want to go in, I decided to use the vice, this has caught the o-ring and nipped it, is there an easy way to get the piston back in without nipping the o-rings?

Here is her first run with all new chains & tensioners

Argocat - First Run - YouTube

brakes lasted all of 5 mins, put the old seals back in for now as I doubt we'll get a new seal kit in time for the show, leaky but we might just get through.

We've cleaned her up for the show, came up lovely! going to have to sort the sag out before she goes operational this winter.

Cheers, Pete.

[rodp]

How have you managed to get it insured ? We were asked to go to a show, as a curiosity more than anything, but had to have third party / public liability insurance. Can't get it anywhere, no-one wants to know and not many know what one is.

Nice job by the way, time consuming aren't they I posted a thread regarding sag, biggish job but worth doing properly. Doing another one over winter probably as it was very successful.

[Pumpy]

I'm not sure TBH Rod, I presume we come under the Response team PLI for "official" response team events, they certainly have it for training days where we work with first responders Fire/Police/Ambulance services etc. but I'm not sure about events.

I'll ask how it works and let you know, the bridge must be crossable as I know a few other County response teams have an Argo, some were operational during the recent floods.

There are a few speciality insurers out there, my Land Rover is far from standard being pretty well tooled up for serious off road stuff, normal insurers won't touch it; I've been using Adrian Flux for that, Heritage is another that springs to mind. AF have a dedicated 4x4 team, it's a lot cheaper than you might think too, mine was around £200 for 5k mile limited millage fully comp new for old policy (my truck is 20yo but had a complete rebuild only 2 yrs ago so is worth a lot more than your average 20yo truck) I had to supply a list of modifications, recipts and pictures to confirm the agreed value.

Any tips on the brakes?

[rodp]

Tried AF and heritage, don't want to know. I used to trial a Suzi SJ with 8 valve 2ltr Calibra engine, Gertrac box, Escort (F) and Fiesta (R) brakes, Carlton power steering, Offset rims with Diamonds, AND it was a hardtop converted to soft top AND the bulkhead was moved back 4". No problem insuring that ................But an Argo, no chance. That would out accelerate a Golf GTI to 70, then it got very hairy on Diamonds so time to back off.

As for the calipers, I would strip one and go round all the seal stockists. As it happens we have one of ours with a sticky cylinder so will be doing just that in the next week or so. Hopefully we can find a replacement on the shelf.

[Pumpy]

Getting the parts is not a problem, we've been using Walsh & Co (Specialist Vehicles) Ltd (Richard Walsh ( Specialist Vehicles ) Ltd for ARGOCAT - Argo 8x8 and 6x6 amphibious ATVS!), most parts off the shelf. Getting the piston back int the RHS of each caliper without nipping the seal again is a bugger!

I'll ask around at Billing over the weekend re insurance.

[eddieb1965]

Alot of people like to add cat to the Argo name,not sure why,or even if there was a Argocat vehicle.

[eddieb1965]

Just as all 6x6 vehicles years ago were Terra-Tigers,being they havent been manufactures in over 40 +years I dont hear that very often anymore.

[ARGOJIM]

Alot of people like to add cat to the Argo name,not sure why,or even if there was a Argocat vehicle.

Argocat is the England marketed Argo.

[rodp]

Getting the parts is not a problem, we've been using Walsh & Co (Specialist Vehicles) Ltd (Richard Walsh ( Specialist Vehicles ) Ltd for ARGOCAT - Argo 8x8 and 6x6 amphibious ATVS!), most parts off the shelf. Getting the piston back int the RHS of each caliper without nipping the seal again is a bugger!

I'll ask around at Billing over the weekend re insurance.

Thanks for trying to find insurance, very good of you.

Ref the seal, not done one yet fortunately but a lot of callipers can be a bitch. Would it be possible to wrap shimming steel around it to start it off ? Other than that it's going to be a case of easing it in with a wooden or plastic spatula (small). Got to do one shortly so will know more probably next week.

Richard walsh carrys quite a selection of parts and to be fair is very helpful on the phone etc, however, when he used to run the 4x4 playdays he was a right surly git. It was a case of sign this and give me the money, that was all you could get out of him. We try not to deal with him.

[Pumpy]

Richard has been very helpful on the phone and via email to us.

I think the thing with 4x4 playdays is pretty common, I get the impression it's about legal liability. I use Yarwell quite a lot as it's my closest site (ran by the same folks who run Rockingham Land Rover experience)
They always tell everyone to stay out of the water, period, and that the marshalls won't recover you if you do go in, but everyone still goes in, as you do

Some bits are real deep, over 30ft deep, couple of drowned trucks almost every time I go (youtube Yarwell and you'll see what I mean!) the thing is, if they tell you where abouts the shallower bits are/where's safe, it could be argued they are liable for letting you get yourself in that situation, so it covers them not to tell you anything.

All part of the fun

The words nose to face cutting off spite spring to mind, tho not in that order Why make life harder than it needs to be?

[rodp]

Hmm, I'm going back 20 odd years or so when he was surly, he may have altered now. The insurance thing for playdays is rearing it's ugly head again. Apparently, according to a mate who used to run them and a few landowners I know, it's all to do with some negligence ruling.

Example given to me ran something like this.
Bloke A organises a fun day, bloke B pays his money and enters site. Bloke A has marshals, cones, tapes etc marking off safe areas. Bloke B gets out his motor and lies down in track on other side of large hump. land Rover comes over hump and squashes him. Bloke B sues Bloke A for negligence. Court rules that it was possible for bloke B to do this therefore Bloke A is negligent for not taking it in to consideration and putting marshal there !!!

Now this ain't bull, this is from the organisers themselves, this is what the courts are ruling. I know in this country you can't sign away your rights regarding negligence, and it looks like the no win no fee mob have jumped on the band wagon. Hopefully Cameron will do as he says and bring in an idiot law absolving organisers from this sort of stupidity in order to get compo.

[Tomo]

HI
Try using and old pad with a caliper piston wind back tool [just to keep the piston 90 degrees to hole .
There may be little room I suspect
U can use either silicon brake slide lube [very slippery] or rubber grease .
If there is a piston boot u can either install boot on the piston first then install boot into caliper and push piston in .
The other way is to install seal and boot into caliper apply compressed air to enter via the bleeder[seal with rag ]
The piston needs to be then installed as the air that's escaping is expanding the boot over the piston ..

tomo

[Pumpy]

HI
Try using and old pad with a caliper piston wind back tool [just to keep the piston 90 degrees to hole .
There may be little room I suspect
U can use either silicon brake slide lube [very slippery] or rubber grease .
If there is a piston boot u can either install boot on the piston first then install boot into caliper and push piston in .
The other way is to install seal and boot into caliper apply compressed air to enter via the bleeder[seal with rag ]
The piston needs to be then installed as the air that's escaping is expanding the boot over the piston ..

tomo

Thanks for thos tips Tommo, I was talking about this this morning to a Land Rover mechanic friend of mine, he mentioned some special greese for brakes that's so full of nasties they can't sell it to the public (name escapes me) he's offered to do the seals for me, top man!

[rodp]

That'll be the red grease they used to supply with seal kits etc years ago, you can still buy it trade. Don't get eating the stuff, it'll do you no good at all

Odds on they will be like most calliper seals, fiddly and time consuming. If you set out knowing it's going to be awkward and don't get wound up you'll succeed eventually.

[Tomo]

Hi
Only RUBBER GREASE if u use normal automotive grease it contains petroleum products which will degrade the rubber boot/seal in a short period of time
Grease is red in colour and slippery

caliper Vasoline /petroleum jelly ok if nothing else available

Silicon caliper slide lube -very good for caliper piston install as well -clear colour

tomo