test rode a Argo Frontier

[mudbug3]

Today , I had the chance to test ride an Argo Frontier in a field behind the dealers shop . This field was all grass with soft dirt underneath , with a little mud in some spots . The camo Frontier is one beautiful amphib . The Argo Frontier tires do ride better than the Good year , Terra tires on my Max IV , there is no doubt about that . If I had to base my amphibious purchase on looks alone , I,d choose the Argo camo Frontier , no doubt about it . But , based on the ease of steering left or right , the T-20 in a Max , wins hands down . If Ontario Drive and Gear ever started building their Argo,s with the T-20 transmisson , this would probably put Recreatives out of business.

[m350]

That's a seems like a good review,,Myself owning a BigFoot,, it does seem to really work Hard,,when trying to turn in High range on like a dry, High grip terrain,,It pulls the engine rpm's down quite a bit, until it slips the tires,,where just watching the Max's on videos,,they seem to turn effortlessly, in dry or wet conditions. I have noticed the BigFoot turns much easier with just one person riding in it.

[jerrynuss]

For the first time buyer looks can be very important since they don't have much experience to go on, so they can choose what is visually appealing. The Argo has evolved and always remains a good looking machine.

The max has stayed the same with minor functional changes in body design. Some people like it and others don't like the look.

I had a salesman that was looking to buy an amphibious atv. We were discussing the Max and features. The salesman said he appreciated the information I was providing but I should realize I am not selling an ATV, but rather I should be selling the benefits of having an amphibious atv. When thinking of the benefits, the visual appeal of the body doesn't mean much. What you guys wrote reminded me of this.

[salamander]

T-20 Question

I don't have any trouble doing really big turns at really low speeds in my Argo, without any power loss. Its called Low Gear! For the type of swampy and rocky terrain of the Canadian Shield; predominant in Ontario, I rarely ever shift it into High.

If it were true that all Argo needs to do to put Recreatives out of business is switch to a T-20 style transmission, I wonder why Recreatives "superior transmission" has not already put Argo out of business?

[jerrynuss]

I was reading the posts and Recreatives "superior transmission" was quoted. I went back up the thread and did not see where superior transmission was mentioned? I didn't see anything that was derogatory about either Argo or Max. Both are capable dependable machines. There are some people that have a preference on the machine based on the transmission, and some based on looks. A person that expresses the desire for both features that he considers positive is just stating the appreciation of both machines.

How they look or the transmission design by description is not important, what is important is do they work where needed?

[Roger S]

I wonder why argo has not used a split transmission, and instead used a whiny, power robbing, open differential all those/these years. Their parent company designs and makes gears and power trains. My only guess is they'd have to pay patent rights. The clunky, whiny trans, exhaust in my face, was enough to make me almost lose interest in buying one. I hadn't even seen a max.

Anyone who's driven a max can appreciate the way it turns, effortless and quietly. After all, this is the 21st century, not the stone age. Instead of screwing up the dealer/distributorship system, argo could have spent the energy coming up with a worthy transmission. Sure, the newer trans are improved, but still a power robbing diff steer. The argo trans does offer some solid features the t20 doesn't.

There's other considerations though.. a frontier has enough power to overcome it's tranny's design, you can drive it all day with one hand, and not have a sore butt, back, or hands at the end of the day. The hull won't be full of water and mud from leaks, the belt never gets wet, etc. But you can't expect a max owner to drive an argo and not be appalled at the effort and power it takes to turn it.

[pepper]

well i am one that does not think the T20 is all that and a bag of tricks, There really isnt an advantage to it for me to base a new purchase on the transmission . If the T20 had a high low it would be a huge improvement but that isnt the market that they are going after. ODG could very easily design a new tranny similer to the T20 and not worry about patents but I guess they have a design that is working well and expected by its customers.
Both have shortcomeing's

[Mike]

Why does the T20 need a low gear? Is that the shortcoming of the T20 in your opinion?

[rdr]

I wonder why argo has not used a split transmission, and instead used a whiny, power robbing, open differential all those/these years. Their parent company designs and makes gears and power trains. My only guess is they'd have to pay patent rights. The clunky, whiny trans, exhaust in my face, was enough to make me almost lose interest in buying one. I hadn't even seen a max.

Anyone who's driven a max can appreciate the way it turns, effortless and quietly. After all, this is the 21st century, not the stone age. Instead of screwing up the dealer/distributorship system, argo could have spent the energy coming up with a worthy transmission. Sure, the newer trans are improved, but still a power robbing diff steer. The argo trans does offer some solid features the t20 doesn't.

There's other considerations though.. a frontier has enough power to overcome it's tranny's design, you can drive it all day with one hand, and not have a sore butt, back, or hands at the end of the day. The hull won't be full of water and mud from leaks, the belt never gets wet, etc. But you can't expect a max owner to drive an argo and not be appalled at the effort and power it takes to turn it.

verry well written roger and true . do love our max IV verry munch robbie

[rdr]

well i am one that does not think the T20 is all that and a bag of tricks, There really isnt an advantage to it for me to base a new purchase on the transmission . If the T20 had a high low it would be a huge improvement but that isnt the market that they are going after. ODG could very easily design a new tranny similer to the T20 and not worry about patents but I guess they have a design that is working well and expected by its customers.
Both have shortcomeing's

i do not wish the t 20 had a low gear. i wish it had a high gear . to get down the road at 40 mph . robbie

[jerrynuss]

I would not see having missing a low gear as a problem with the T-20. I think the biggest drawback of the T-20 is the shifting. The Argo needs the low gear the Max and others with the T20 don't need the low gear, now maybe an overdrive or higher gear would be nice.

On the thought of transmissions is it a matter of which comes first... the chicken or the egg now? ODG has the Argo to showcase the transmission, Skidsteer has the Max to put the T20 in. Just thoughts and not meant to be historically accurate.

[pepper]

A low range would be a big improvement on the T20, sometimes you dont want wheel speed just a solid tractable power. I would help in real technical stuff as well as things where you need power and not wheel speed. I find myself wanting a lowgear for lots of things.
The T20 is not what alot of folks claim and is far short of the perfect transmission that sheeple puport it to be , they could improve upon it thats for sure.



I do think the max is a bit small but that is the nature of the beast (why no 8x 8), it is more of a recreation vehicle then an industrial device.



For the money you pay for these machines and how basic they are in design I would say the consumer is really getting soaked.
If honda or yamaha was makeing these you can bet they would have full suspension, hi-low ranges be fully amphib with probably a jet propulsion system more comfortable and more ergonomically designed at about the same price or less then an argo.

[rdr]

A low range would be a big improvement on the T20, sometimes you dont want wheel speed just a solid tractable power. I would help in real technical stuff as well as things where you need power and not wheel speed. I find myself wanting a lowgear for lots of things.
The T20 is not what alot of folks claim and is far short of the perfect transmission that sheeple puport it to be , they could improve upon it thats for sure.



I do think the max is a bit small but that is the nature of the beast (why no 8x 8), it is more of a recreation vehicle then an industrial device.



For the money you pay for these machines and how basic they are in design I would say the consumer is really getting soaked.
If honda or yamaha was makeing these you can bet they would have full suspension, hi-low ranges be fully amphib with probably a jet propulsion system more comfortable and more ergonomically designed at about the same price or less then an argo.

red spring pep

[pepper]

i do not wish the t 20 had a low gear. i wish it had a high gear . to get down the road at 40 mph . robbie

You folks are looking at it wrong.
The whole point of the low range, instead of haveing one range like we have now on the T20 we could have a truly low range for really crawling and a truly hi range for speeding along at 35- 40 mph . Right now the only option T20 owners have is to be a jack of all trades and master of none and throwing HP at the problem is not fixing the gearing issue it is mearly masking it somwhat.

A t20 with a High low range and a split shifter would be a big improvement.

[jerrynuss]

People have been saying that about Honda and Yamaha for years yet they still don't make them or even attempt to make an AATV. The price on the AATV is not as bad as people think when you consider how many products that company is making and how many manufacturers are out there.

There are readily available used machines that a person can get into at a very good price with some research and parts are almost always available. One huge benefit of not changing the design is the ability to find parts and to be able to source a lot of them from the corner automotive parts store. I doubt this would be the case if the Japanese companies made their AATV.

I am curious about what terrain you are driving the T20 and what is considered technical, what CVT are you using with the T-20 that you are getting wheel spin. Maybe it is a mismatched engine and CVT with the T20.