Argo 8x8 with tracks. It sucks??????

[aarinsingh]

Ok I'm new to argo's so maybe I'm not being realistic.

I bought an older Argo '88 KB model 8x8 with a kohler kt17 engine. I did a bunch of work to it when I bought it. tranny, oil change, chains, and drive gears, rebuilt the brakes etc. I never drove it with the tracks on it (plastic argo tracks) as I took them off to check bearings and seals.

I drove the argo several times after I did the work on it and the last time it got wet. I slid sideways into a mud hole and had water come into the argo over the side.

bear with me we are almost to my questions.

Post adventure work included cleaning and flushing the fuel tank, all new fuel lines, cleaned the fuel pump ( an after market snowmobile style pump). Just finished cleaning and rebuilding the carb. Now here is where we sit.

Argo suck in hi gear on tracks. It drives fine with lots of power for turning in reverse and low gear. In hi gear it starts off all right, but not as fast as on wheels but after 500-600m its like it is running out of power. making steering corrections on steering seems to bog the motor out.

SO. does the kt17 have enough jam to run the tracks? should I be running my tracks in low gear only? is my motor of adjustment? I used the manual to redo the carb, and youtube of course, but thats my first carb job.

plan of attack for tomorrow is ditch the tracks, and run it. Change fuel pumps and run it. Check forum for wisdom that I sense is eminent.

Oh yeah and a snowmobile guru friend of mine said he had a sled once that he was sure was having mixture problems only to find out it was a clutch problem. Previous owner had changed parts in the secondary drive clutch. I haven't done my clutches yet so if this seems likely to you speak up so I can order clutch parts (I'm sure the primary is due)

Have a good night

[Noel Woods]

You are pushing a lot of weight with a mere 17HP even without tracks. I would think that your gearing is on the high side as well. My Argos have the 3.3 low geared transmissions. I have a 23 hp B&S in one, and a 31+hp Generac in the other. Both are more than adequate on a light 6x6, and I run the Adair tracks on both machines.

Your current track is really a light mud and snow track.

I've driven an 8x8 with a 23 HP engine and when its geared low, it was more than adequate. Keep in mind you loose compression and power as an engine wears down, so your actual power may be less than 17hp.

[Rock Doctor]

Your power is a little on the low side, as mentioned, but you can compensate for that a little with Clutching.
As you said, your Primary is probably due anyway, but there are a few modifications you can do.
Put a Shim in the Spring carrier for the Primary. I just use a Welding Rod bent into a circle the same diameter as the Spring, 3/32 or 1/8 work well. This will increase the engagement RPM, and keep you at a slightly higher RPM at any given speed.
You can tighten the Secondary a bit (Position 1 or 2), this will slow your Upshift and Increase the rate of Downshift, which helps in the mud and on hills.

OR, you can do what I did and drop a 27hp in that baby, lol.

RD

[aarinsingh]

Ok so I'm not nuts.

I bought the argo to haul gear for my daughters trapline. We are always heavy with gear, bait, chainsaws, gas etc.
the terrain is a mix light swamp, trails and firm ground and we switch to skidoos when the snow gets serious.

I'm watching te engine swap threads and if i had the skill some of you guys have the chevy sprint or kubpta diesel would be awesome. But realistically i'll be a 23-27 hp upgrade with a new transmission. I'd like to just work it for a year and get to know it a bit better before i rip it apart again. And i have a skidoo engine tgat needs a rebuild first.

The fuel pump is a question. Is the skidoo style pukse pump sufficient, or should i be reinstalling the oem pump?

I did check my cyl compressions and they are both just shy of 100psi with no noticible leak down. For an old engine it seems solid. Are the factory needle valve settings relativley accurate? The previous owner had them at 1.5 from bottom on the low and 3 on the high. (600' elevation)

Thanks for the help guys this forum is a favorite.

[plott hound]

I had an older model like yours and in high gear it was low on power.i just left it in low gear and it was fine,im never in a rush anyhow.i woud put the oem pump back on it then have some fun......

[aarinsingh]

Alright had a good day on the Argo. And I been feeling bad about saying that it sucked.

First thing out of the gate this morning I pulled the tracks. Instant difference I could drive around indoors on dry concrete. Out side on snow ice gravel mix it was a riot, and had power to climb small hills in hi gear. We trailered it out to my daughters trapline and ran it for 3.5-4hrs with no major issues. I still need to tweak the idle so it shifts, (had to pull the choke to get it low enough to shift) But all in a good day. I checked the plugs after the run and they were a nice light tan so I'm in the range.

It was the manual that said not to run it in low gear for extended periods of time. Usually I don't bother with manuals unless I need to mix up a batch of epoxy.

My transmission is popping out of gear on reverse and sometimes low gear. Now I rebuilt this transmission after the reverse idler shaft went internal. So I may have to peel it apart again and see what I missed.

Any guesses as to how much snow I can go through with out tracks.

Thanks for the help and the encouragement guys

[aarinsingh]

Oh yeah and she brought home 3 more marten and a couple weasels

[john swenson]

what a great feeling when you work out some problems, then have a good ride and really see how super these machines are. don't give up on the tracks yet though. someone will steer you in the right direction to get the best performance with them. good luck ! johnboy va.

[JohnF]

I would put the tracks on, jack up the vehicle so that there is clearance to rotate the tracks by hand, and then check to see that I actually could rotate them by hand. If your tire radii are off of each other you lose a great deal of power scrubbing tires against each other inside the tracks. The further off the radii the more you lose. You can tweak this by running different pressures in each tire. I can easily rotate my tracks by hand.

So, maybe your tracks are bound up.

[ARGOJIM]

Most of those I/C's are geared pretty low with a top speed of about 15 mph wheeled, check the stuff John stated and maybe check the point gap if your 17 has points.

[philipatmaxfour]

[QUOTE=aarinsingh;

It was the manual that said not to run it in low gear for extended periods of time. Usually I don't bother with manuals unless I need to mix up a batch of epoxy.:
I hope a few guys chime in on this but I was taught to use low gear most often on the trail. better for the clutch and belt not to lug it. I know the new HDI is the opposite, ie: keep it in high rangr except for tight turns. Are you sure that you have the right manual for your machine?

[ARGOJIM]

[QUOTE=philipatmaxfour;178737][QUOTE=aarinsingh;

It was the manual that said not to run it in low gear for extended periods of time. Usually I don't bother with manuals unless I need to mix up a batch of epoxy.:
I hope a few guys chime in on this but I was taught to use low gear most often on the trail. better for the clutch and belt not to lug it. I know the new HDI is the opposite, ie: keep it in high rangr except for tight turns. Are you sure that you have the right manual for your machine?[/QUOTE]

[Noel Woods]

I actually remember seeing that in the manuals (stay in high until you need to go to low) and in discussing with a couple of dealers they verified that as well.

I think the rule of common sense also kicks in, better to not lug the motor and occasionally go into low, especially since the output of 17 hp doesn't give a lot of reserve while in high gear. If it feels good in low, then drive it that way.

No matter what the gearing is, I think the smallish motor will have a hard time lugging this big machine around. My tan Max2 started life with a 14hp B&S, when that engine finally gave up the ship, I upgraded to an 18 which was like a night and day difference.

Most of these 8x8 have been up-engined over the years. 23-29hp seems to be the preferred power range.

[ARGOJIM]

I actually remember seeing that in the manuals (stay in high until you need to go to low) and in discussing with a couple of dealers they verified that as well.

I think the rule of common sense also kicks in, better to not lug the motor and occasionally go into low, especially since the output of 17 hp doesn't give a lot of reserve while in high gear. If it feels good in low, then drive it that way.

No matter what the gearing is, I think the smallish motor will have a hard time lugging this big machine around. My tan Max2 started life with a 14hp B&S, when that engine finally gave up the ship, I upgraded to an 18 which was like a night and day difference.

Most of these 8x8 have been up-engined over the years. 23-29hp seems to be the preferred power range.

The power upgrade is a major improvement, though the clutch fix is a cheater for now, but there are plenty of I/C's getting drug out of the shed now to haul moose around.

I'm not sure what gear RD is running with his Conquests, but with his weights I'd guess low through the trails.

We recommended to the guys in the marsh to run low due to the excess drag on the machine, no sense lugging the engine or burning up the belt. The older trans makes no difference as you are always spinning the same things no matter what range. That is pre HDI.

[Rock Doctor]

The power upgrade is a major improvement, though the clutch fix is a cheater for now, but there are plenty of I/C's getting drug out of the shed now to haul moose around.

I'm not sure what gear RD is running with his Conquests, but with his weights I'd guess low through the trails.

We recommended to the guys in the marsh to run low due to the excess drag on the machine, no sense lugging the engine or burning up the belt. The older trans makes no difference as you are always spinning the same things no matter what range. That is pre HDI.

I pretty much NEVER run low gear in my machine, but it IS a low geared trans. The HP increase and the clutching work extremely well.
My daughters Conquest is med geared, with a stock 20hp. It gets run in low gear if it's heavily loaded sometimes, but not often. Normally it's just a "comfort thing" when she runs it in low, not because it won't go in high.

RD