Conquest - won't turn very well.

[mitchamus]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some advice, as my Conquest doesn't seem to be turning very well on grass, either from a stand still or when moving.

some background -
The brake cooling fan is working and running fine.
Plenty of meat left on the brake pads
Some differential pressure in the L/R levers (right brake better pressure then the Left)

So the issue:
When turning from a stop, I have to use about 3/4 throttle, and the pull the lever back hard. and give it more gas to get it to move at all.

The brake disc locks solid, but there is very little turning motion. The secondary clutch is spinning, so not sure if it is maybe the main clutch slipping?

I was also wondering if it could be a differential problem inside the gearbox?

Can anyone let me know what order I should try and diagnose the problem?

Although the brakes need adjusting, I think they are working without slipping.

it seems to take a great deal of power to get it to turn, and when it does turn, it does so VERY reluctantly.


When underway, I have to 'jab' the brake quite hard to get any turning movement.
I can't do a 'gentle' turn or 'slight correction' at all

Not sure if that is just how Argo's are, as this is my first Argo, and the first time in one.

any help or advice appreciated...


cheers,
Mitch.

[Mike]

Mitch, what you are describing sounds normal for an Argo transmission. When turning from a stop, give it some gas going forward first and then brake the side that you want to lock up. That should make it easier to turn. When you are moving, small jabs like you describe are what it takes to make a turn with the least resistance. If you think about the way your Conquest steers, you are really working against yourself by giving power at the same time you are applying brakes. So, it is going to rob some power. I think once you get some more seat time you will do it more naturally. I've watched some of the Argo guys on trail rides and they make it look easy. I'm an Argo novice so I'm in the same boat, or amphibious ATV if you will, as you.

[JohnF]

Verify that your engine is running on both cylinders.
In neutral, go WOT and verify that the engine gets to 3600 RPM.
Straight flat level ground, high gear, try to catch the RPM that the CVT engages and make note of whether it lugs (too soon) or races and jerks (too late) at the point of engagement. Then go WOT and verify that on the flat you can get to (nearly) 3600 RPM.
Straight level high gear WOT and just pull back a bit on one lever - does it feather a turn or does it lug the engine?
What is your elevation?

[foxvalley]

I would also make sure that the largest tires are in the center of the unit( 4biggest in the middle)You can also add more tire preasure to the 4 center tires.As mike mentioned,trying to turn from a dead stop is very hard on the unit,as the brakes and gas are applied at the same time, so get it going first before you turn.
There is a learning curve,especially on older units, to get the "feel" for how each unit responds, as they are all different.

[ARGOJIM]

Check rpm's first and make sure it's turning 3600 in neutral at full throttle. Taking some pictures of the clutches with the belt in view along with pics of the trans and powerpack may help. A little info on the machine like model number, trans serial number with letters and hours will also help.
I like to see video with sound so we can hear what it's doing. Many members may chime in with there version of "seen that".

The gas while braking is very important as mentioned and will come naturally eventually, turning an 8 wheeler from a dead stop is very laboring and a slight forward or backward roll will ease it greatly. From a dead stop you are both trying to skid 4 tires and spin 4 tires.

[msafi65]

You didn't mention if it's on tracks or tires. With tracks I don't even try to turn an Argo from a stop on solid ground. Just spend some time in it and the turns will smooth out a bunch.

[mitchamus]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I will try and do an RPM check with a tacho if I can borrow one.

I tried WOT in neutral, and heard a clanking sound and metal shavings!!!! flying off the primary clutch!! what the hell???? lol!! sounds like there is definitely an issue there. perhaps with the weights

I'm pretty sure it's operating on both cylinders, i would be able to tell that straight away.

when running in high gear WOT, applying gentle pressure on the levers doesn't do anything to change your heading. You have to jab the brake really hard to get it to turn, re-arranging everything in the cab... it's almost like you have to 'shock' the tranny into doing anything.

it's a 90's model conquest, MT tranny, with Fd-620 water cooled engine.

The elevation of the property is 1100m (3000') AMSL up to about 1300m.

I will take a video with my motorcyle helmet camera next time I'm at my property.

I will defnitely try a higher pressure in the centre 4 tyres, oh and no tracks, just brand new knobby tyres

oh and I have the same turning issues when on gravel or grass. might turn a smidge easier on the gravel.. but it's still a fight to get it to do anything.

[ARGOJIM]

You may have answered you own question there.
Good luck.

[msafi65]

Also sounds like you need a shim or two behind the driven clutch. The moving face can contact at full throttle. Argo sells a shim for there. Sometimes need two.

[JohnF]

...I'm pretty sure it's operating on both cylinders, i would be able to tell that straight away.

Don't be so sure. That FD620D runs remarkably well on one. It fooled me. (That doesn't mean much though...)

The elevation of the property is 1100m (3000') AMSL up to about 1300m.

Elevation then is not an issue.

just brand new knobby tyres

Knobbys can exacerbate the steering concerns on skid steers.

But yeah, sounds like a peek at the clutches is in order.

[ARGOJIM]

Also sounds like you need a shim or two behind the driven clutch. The moving face can contact at full throttle. Argo sells a shim for there. Sometimes need two.

Had that written out when called to eat, no shims the driven can contact the caliper or chain (I forget), another issue may be a broken snap ring allowing the hub to slide out again with contact. But if you have a clanking from the primary and that's were the metal is from start there. You may need heat to remove it from the engine.

[mitchamus]

ok thanks for all the help.

It's definitely running on 2 cylinders. although yes - it sounded pretty good on one !!!

It seems to turn easier in low-range, I'm assuming that's just because more torque is being applied to the differential...

Putting more air in the centre tyres helped a lot.

Still no video, (forgot my camera) will get that in 2 weeks time.

I think I just need to pull the gearbox and replace the bearings and check for wear.

I replaced the shoes in the driven clutch when I put everything back together, as well as slid in a new bush.

just to confirm - the metal shavings came off the primary clutch. I guess I should pull that as well....