HDI 8 wheel stability on water?

[cdover73]

Is it possible to turn an 8 wheel machine over? I am running stock tires at 3psi, don't have the ROPS or any other weight that sits high, no tracks, and do have front and rear racks and a winch. My thought is it would be hard to turn over since you would have to sink all 4 tires, which are very buoyant. I know you can get the sides down enough to take on water, but will it actually flip over?

The reason I am asking is this weekend a bunch of us went out riding on a pipeline that has a shallow pond on it. I have never seen anyone not be able to walk all the way across it and get more than chest deep. Well, I had 5 adults, 2 in front and 3 in back, which I know is 1 more than the manufacturer recommends on water, plus an ice chest full of beer(hmmm....maybe I just found out the problem...ha!). I started into the pond to make a wide circle and come back out. It floated fine at first but when I got out a little and the tires had nothing on bottom to bounce off of the 'fun' started! As it started going from side to side my passengers got scared and were trying to go to the opposite side. I yelled for them to not move and let me do the corrections but that didn't matter. It would start slowly sinking to one side, then slowly all the way back to the other side. Water did spill over the sides a couple times. I had the bilge pump on but it never took on enough for it to pump out. We made it out without incident but I was very nervous about how it acted. If they would have all leaned hard to one side, I wonder if that would have been enough to sink the tires past center and roll us over??

[Dozerlarry]

I don't have an 8 wheeler but I believe anything is capable of turning over. And yes, if everybody had leaned one way, it would've swamped and maybe sank. When I'm in my Max 4 and need to turn while floating I lean in the direction of the turn and that side goes down and helps me turn faster. And that's just 1 person, not 5. I regard what the manufacturer says about weight capacity as being real generous when I float.

[philipatmaxfour]

Is it possible to turn an 8 wheel machine over? I am running stock tires at 3psi, don't have the ROPS or any other weight that sits high, no tracks, and do have front and rear racks and a winch. My thought is it would be hard to turn over since you would have to sink all 4 tires, which are very buoyant. I know you can get the sides down enough to take on water, but will it actually flip over?

The reason I am asking is this weekend a bunch of us went out riding on a pipeline that has a shallow pond on it. I have never seen anyone not be able to walk all the way across it and get more than chest deep. Well, I had 5 adults, 2 in front and 3 in back, which I know is 1 more than the manufacturer recommends on water, plus an ice chest full of beer(hmmm....maybe I just found out the problem...ha!). I started into the pond to make a wide circle and come back out. It floated fine at first but when I got out a little and the tires had nothing on bottom to bounce off of the 'fun' started! As it started going from side to side my passengers got scared and were trying to go to the opposite side. I yelled for them to not move and let me do the corrections but that didn't matter. It would start slowly sinking to one side, then slowly all the way back to the other side. Water did spill over the sides a couple times. I had the bilge pump on but it never took on enough for it to pump out. We made it out without incident but I was very nervous about how it acted. If they would have all leaned hard to one side, I wonder if that would have been enough to sink the tires past center and roll us over??

Hi Mr. Dover. I have to ask ,how many of your five passengers were over 200 lbs? Were any of them over 250 lbs? If you manage to fill an Argo Big foot 6 wheel with water it will sink nose down with the rear hitch above water. At least the one with a roof rack that my friend dove off of did. I towed it to shore with my Avenger.

[john swenson]

i would think to actually '' flip it like a canoe'' , it would need to be a on purpose effort.. on the count of 3, everyone jump to the left side''. but other than that, once one side or the front or back gets low enough to start taking on water and the tub filling... then no more driving back to shore. i just wonder even if the tub filled up, would the tires air keep it from actually sinking or would it just float maybe 3/4 below the water ? johnboy va.

[tbone9]

I filled up a Max IV one time while attempting to climb out of the water onto the ice. Almost made it out but then it slid back in with the left rear taking on water. It was about four feet deep. As it filled up it stayed shiny side up. It leaned a lot but in the short time it took to fill up it righted itself again. I would think an 8 wheeler might react the same but wouldn't wanna find out. Luckily I remembered to kill the engine before she sank.

[ARGOJIM]

Well we had a HDI out with 4 people in it, I asked everyone to stay put and stood off the side with my but out and didn't take on water or sink, however 4 people doing such may do a major difference. Side and rear entry of water with a machine over capacity will lead to a full or sunk machine!

Sorry Sam

It's full to the seat and any movement brought more water in.

[cdover73]

Rofl!!! I am soo glad to hear I'm not the only one who has had an anal-cranial inversion (wait for it....)!! I knew the water wasn't deep enough to actually sink it, but it was deep enough to allow water in over the sides a couple times. Like I said it wasn't enough for the bilge pump to even pick up and very little drained out when I pulled the plugs after. I know 5 was over the limit, and to answer Philip's question....yes I am at 270 and the other front passenger was about the same. The three in the back were females, and would beat me down if I told their weight! ha Even so, we were for sure over the recommended capacity. I wouldn't have took the chance had we been in an unknown water source. Being as though I knew how deep this was and even in worst case scenario of taking a full tub of water on we still wouldn't have lost the machine so I figured I would try it out. Stupid? Maybe. But now I know where its limits are in that respect.

My knowledge of the Argo is growing every time I take it out. I remember the very first pieces of advice this board gave me about learning how to maneuver now seems like 2nd nature. Now I would like to learn the extreme limits of the machine so I can know better what NOT to do. The best way to do that is by asking questions, not by trial and error! So on that note and back to my original question...will the 8 wheel HDI be able to do a barrel roll or will the buoyancy of the 4 tires keep it from going all the way under? I know the tub will fill and it can sink. But I saw a video on Youtube with two guys on a ROPS unit literally trying to turn it over in deep water and couldn't even get the sides to take on water. Is it really that stable or am I missing something???

[ARGOJIM]

Though I would not wish to try it my best guess is no. HOWEVER, what I believe would or could happen is a machine tilted to one side would allow water to enter through engine vents and side entry points somewhat filling the machine and increasing weight, any adjustment of weight (especially forward) would further lower the engine vents towards water line and suck more in making it nose heavy and continue taking water until the inevitable plunge. I was at an outing that just this happened sinking the frontier 6x6 which nosed just as Warren wrote of the Bigfoot.
I would be more concerned of nosing than rolling, but sunk is sunk, Sam was lucky the machine was loaded fairly even and the water was chest deep but the other fellow was in 15' or more and not lucky at all with a near death drowning because someone had a seatbelt on.

I personally just filled my v2 at Busco not paying attention and a passenger trying to help me lean in the water, not a fun feeling when your butt gets wet.

Warren has a vid of stills on YouTube and so do the boys at the mud nationals of what I just described.

[dirtdobber]

Cdover go back to the YouTube video and see if that is the machine with dual wheels. The extra wheels add buoyancy and stability.

[allwheeldrive]

My thought is it would be hard to turn over since you would have to sink all 4 tires, which are very buoyant.

Doesn't matter how buoyant those 4 tires are, you have 4 equally buoyant tires on the other side trying to push themselves up and out of the water. Unless you tip enough for those 4 to completely leave the water (at that point your already filling) the 4 under water make no difference. The only effect tires have for stability is their width they essentially add to the tub, assuming they grant any more than that would be the same as thinking the more you tipped a canoe over the more of it would be submerged and the more it try and right itself. If that was the case I sure have not noticed.

[cdover73]

Awesome replies!! Thanks! That pretty much confirms what I was thinking. If you have seen any of my other posts you may know I have had a hard time dealing with water navigation. I had to learn that using low range in water is not just a recommendation but a necessity(you need the opposite wheels turning backwards on the HDI with Admiral in order to make a turn). I learned that my Argo DOES NOT like ANY current AT ALL(I still don't understand how that video with the two guys in a white water river was even possible and they made it look easy)!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncxmgGtW4uw I learned that hitting underwater obstructions will greatly affect the way the machine floats, while at the same time increases your pucker factor by 10! And I learned that more than 4 people at reasonable weight is the upper limit of what you should even attempt in calm water. I don't know about the other video I mentioned being dual wheels or not. I can't find it to watch it again. But there were two guys standing on each side holding on to the ROPS and rocking back and forth trying to flip it over. The sides wouldn't even go under.

My question about whether it would flip or not was only based on curiosity. I understand the tub will fill first, which then you have more problems than worrying about turning over. So, I guess that leads to my next question....I have the Argo supplied bilge pump. I don't know the flow rate for it offhand. But now I am wondering how efficient it would be at keeping up with a SLOW overflow? I know it wouldn't keep up with a full submerge situation. But just how much insurance does it provide? Would it be worth upgrading to a larger volume pump? Or would it be a point of diminishing returns where no pump would be able to keep up?

Thanks again for all your replies!

[cdover73]

Also, regarding that last post about the bilge pumps and before I get pounded....I know the best solution is to not get in a situation where water would come inside the tub! But I am a firm believer in the law of average. If you do something enough, the worst case scenario will eventually happen. So better to be prepared for when it DOES happen. Just wanted to clear that up...thanks