Argo expanding

[Sparx]

good point at the end! everything built now a days is for the future.fuel injection for less emissions we all know how we are making our planet suffer frrom all those emissions

It's overated buddy and you only hear what they want you to hear. If it was such an issue why wouldn't all our lawnmowers, snowblowers and other small engines have them? The pollution from these used way more often then our machines is astronomical.

Let's all face it, we all can have an issue arise from flooding our Argo's can we not? What you gonna do when you ECM is fried from being under water.

It would be a joy to operate our Argo's in the environment that street vehicles operate but we know better then that. We fill our units often with dirty jerry cans, in the rain not in the ideal conditions of a roof covered fuel station like our vehicles.
I've had an injector fail on my 2007 Arctic Cat M1000 dumping excess fuel into my motor and almost running out of fuel because of it. I've seen ECM's fail and lock up on many trucks. I programmed them with EFI Live, seen the $1000 bill family and customers paid to have the dealer unlock and reprogram. Vehicles not start from "ghost" ECM problems.

To relate the issue more specifically, our Pipeline division at work had our Argo 750EFI fail on one cylinder and they were lucky to limp it back out of the bush for warranty repair at the shop.

I've flooded my Argo, when I got it, the unit was neglected and sat in the yard a few years of the dealership. bad fuel is bad fuel in any system, EFI has no magic recipe for that situation either, hense injector cleaners...

I could go on and on, but I think I've more then made my point made.

Number one tip I can pass on boys is this... If you are having running issues, get rid of that fuel and run a good amount of 91 octane with Techron or other gas pump added fuel system cleaner. It works amazing and can even bypass you cleaning the carb! It's saved me twice now, once on my Argo as mentioned without even emptying the tank! I personally use Petro Canada 91 with Techron, the 94 doesn't have it fyi.
If any of my small engines sit for an off season I try to run that before and after and have had amazing results.

[curtisbyrne]

good point at the end! everything built now a days is for the future.fuel injection for less emissions we all know how we are making our planet suffer frrom all those emissions

[marauder]

I'm old enough to remember the 'good old days' of carburetors on automobiles, how I long for the vapor lock in the summer time, the carburetor icing in the fall and winter, the floats sticking open or closed, accelerator pumps that didn't, automatic chokes that wouldn't shut or wouldn't come off at warm up, flooding due to pumping it one time too many to set the choke, the myriad of rebuild kits to keep them going. Ah yes, I remember them fondly. Long live fuel injection, it may cost more initially and be more complicated but I have yet to own a car that needed any service at all on the fuel injection system, and I keep my vehicles well past 100K miles each, not to mention the better fuel economy, easier start up, and reduced emissions that EFI gets you over carbs.

[curtisbyrne]

it goes back and forth but at the end of the day there is a reason being that they use EFI and computers, if not they would still use carbs and computers and sensors would be un heard of.

[Craig_B]

Cost is the main factor, so bottom line models saves money still running carbs. Problem is most company's need a balance in their lineup to be allowed to continue to sell carburated models and regulations probably have limitations on them likely by volume of emissions they produce. Another reason why 2 Strokes are being forced out unless they can meet certain emission targets.

For me, ask yourself this... Can you clean out and EFI system or repair it in the middle of nowhere? Does it not complicate and add more to go wrong on a machine you want as reliable as possible? A faulty injector or ECM could mean you walking out of the bush. With minor tools you can take apart and clean carburators, gravity feed them to run if really necessary.

This is why I got my 700HD model. I have dealt with enough EFI issues over the years to know the reliability is much higher with carbs overall when taken care of and maintained right.

I couldn't tell you how many fuel pump issues, wiring issues being heat related I've dealt with that I could care less to ever see again.

You ever wonder why they say they don't make them like they used to? Cause vehicles nowadays are super complicated with electronics that aren't very reliable. The more you keep out the better. Carbs and fan cooled are definitely the way to go for reliability.

I cannot speak for the electronics in recreational vehicles but in my field of automobiles the electronics are Far more reliable than the "good old stuff" and I am sure it applies to modern recreational vehicles too.

There may be more expense up front but overall with electronic ignition and fuel injection over the life of the vehicle the costs and the down time are almost nill.
First thing I did when I purchased my 1965 Starcraft Chieftain (Boat) was change out the old points and condenser and replace them with an electronic unit.
Replace and forget. No maintenance, no fouling, no failing.
Even if they did fail the electronic ignition was easier to install than the original points so a field repair if necessary would be no more work than the old way.

I hardly ever even see an injector fail anymore. (maybe back in the late 80's and 1990's)
Same goes for fuel pumps, coils, etc.

So I politely disagree with the statement that "Cause vehicles nowadays are super complicated with electronics that aren't very reliable." Because thats just not true. In fact its the opposite.

[curtisbyrne]

yes that is very true carburetors are gonna put up a fight before they are gone all together.

[Sparx]

Cost is the main factor, so bottom line models saves money still running carbs. Problem is most company's need a balance in their lineup to be allowed to continue to sell carburated models and regulations probably have limitations on them likely by volume of emissions they produce. Another reason why 2 Strokes are being forced out unless they can meet certain emission targets.

For me, ask yourself this... Can you clean out and EFI system or repair it in the middle of nowhere? Does it not complicate and add more to go wrong on a machine you want as reliable as possible? A faulty injector or ECM could mean you walking out of the bush. With minor tools you can take apart and clean carburators, gravity feed them to run if really necessary.

This is why I got my 700HD model. I have dealt with enough EFI issues over the years to know the reliability is much higher with carbs overall when taken care of and maintained right.

I couldn't tell you how many fuel pump issues, wiring issues being heat related I've dealt with that I could care less to ever see again.

You ever wonder why they say they don't make them like they used to? Cause vehicles nowadays are super complicated with electronics that aren't very reliable. The more you keep out the better. Carbs and fan cooled are definitely the way to go for reliability.

[curtisbyrne]

why??? very soon carbs will be very uncommon as they are becoming today. EFI is the way to go even though i only have experience with carbed machines which had zero trouble might i add.

[Sparx]

that 40HP is carbed???

Nope, the two base model Frontier in 6x6 and 8x8 are. The rest are still EFI whether air or liquid cooled.

The Frontier 600 in the 6x6 is 18HP and the Frontier 650 in the 8x8 is 23HP.

[curtisbyrne]

that 40HP is carbed???

[blazin674]

The one with the tracks looks cool to me. I'm curious to see how the suspension inside the tracks hold up to snow and mud.

[Sparx]

No offense to you folks who have the Admiral transmissions. I think they are a fine unit and the new ones seem to work flawlessly. The ones that I commented on were all the first generation. Those machines seemed to make a ratcheting noise that was very audible and to me as well as the owners of those machines seemed loud enough to be disturbing. They, and I were stopping every few minutes to determine if anything was out of whack or there was something stuck in the chains.
Even those were smooth in the slop and I enjoyed the performance they provided.

No offense taken from me, only ever owned a 13 and 15 so no clue about the first few models. Definitely good to know and great convo! Thanks.

[Noel Woods]

No offense to you folks who have the Admiral transmissions. I think they are a fine unit and the new ones seem to work flawlessly. The ones that I commented on were all the first generation. Those machines seemed to make a ratcheting noise that was very audible and to me as well as the owners of those machines seemed loud enough to be disturbing. They, and I were stopping every few minutes to determine if anything was out of whack or there was something stuck in the chains.
Even those were smooth in the slop and I enjoyed the performance they provided.

[Sparx]

Most of the new Argos have the fan kit available either as a standard feature or as an option. I live in Texas and can verify that even in high heat it makes for a must have, no engine over heating at all. The large commercial grade engines also have a big cooling fan. Between the induction fan and the hood fan my machine has never over heated.

Same deal with me, haven't ever seen past half on my temp gauge. BUT! The heat gets so hot in the engine bay and can't get it out fast enough that my fuel line is vaporizing and my machine cuts out to the point of barely idling, hard starting with lots of throttle and playing with the choke to get any fuel to the carb without flashing off.
I plant to add the cowl fan no matter what, and do some heat protection on my fuel line but this should have been solved from the factory.
Keeping the motors cool on Argo's I don't think is much of the problem as much as getting that heat out of the engine bay.

The combination of being enclosed and right next to the transmission with skid steering brakes dragging all the time is a recipe for disaster when worked hard.

I think the motor will do fine, I've been getting sick and tired of topping up my coolant all the time and always been a big believer in fan cooled motors for reliability. I've had my fair share of warped heads and overheating winching through muskeg on many liquid cooled machines that I have lost faith in them really. I personally think this is a great move, even greater is the return of carburated models! How come no one has mentioned this yet???? A+ in my mind.

[Sparx]

I think the big news isn't the transmission, its the fact that there will be a 40hp option on some models. The extra power will make the machine really perform well. Several years back I had an Argo 6x6 that had a Generac 30hp conversion. Even though the machine had the old school transmission the extra power made it perform like an Admiral but without the noted issues of the Admiral.
My hat is off to Argo. Thinking outside the box will allow their product line to evolve and meet the expectations of consumers.

What are some of the "Noted" issues of the Admiral trans? I've heard about these but yet to experience any in approx 500hrs of driving them.
I've heard some neutral switch issues and the odd high/low shift cable adjustments mainly.