clutch brake

[swampdonkey]

anyone ever tried putting some sort of brake on the clutch to stop it so as not to grind gears when shifting? just thinking today it wouldnt be that hard to do. just have to have a lever with a pushrod that would jam up against side of secondary to slow it down and even stop it. aynone have any ideas?? "storms" machine has some sort of lever through the firewall that looks something like what i was thinking of.

[Rock Doctor]

I think it could be done, but I don't think it should have to be done.
If your secondary is spinning at an idle, there is something "wrong". Nothing serious, but the idle might be too high, or the belt too short, or Primary clutch spring is getting weak, ect.
Do you think any of these might be an issue with your machine?


RD

[swampdonkey]

ya the idle is high.. the charging indicator on the dash is bliniking every once in while. havent put a tach to it yet to get correct rpm. if i let my machine run for any length of time at idle and shut it down then try and start it again, it doesnt have enough juice to turn over. battery draw at idle is more than the alternator can provide. maybe if i can increase idle speed to where if it was in gear and wouldnt crawl but have it high enough to charge the battery. taking a set of cables and a battery is getting on my nerves. maybe theres a problem with the alternator? because i dont have that problem with any of the bikes ive owned. whats different with these machines?? i think this way would be pretty easy im just wondering if anyone has ever tried. could prabably use a piece of the chain take up sliders to rub agianst the clutch to prevent any damage. was thinking of putting it on the drivers side and running it across to the fixed side of the secondary in behind the firewall any ideas?????

[Rock Doctor]

A few questions:

What machine is this?
Does it, in fact, have an alternator? (My Argo's do not, just the factory charging systems)
Your Secondary clutch should NOT be turning when your engine is idling, Your belt should NOT be turning when the engine is idling.

Is the Primary Clutch grabbing the belt at an idle, and spinning it? If so, you may have a weak Primary spring. How many hours on the clutches?

Is the belt contacting the Primary Clutch Shaft with enough force to cause the belt and Secondary Clutch to spin at an idle? If so, you may have a "Short" belt, or you may have to shim your Secondary Clutch open just a bit.

My Conquest will idle low enough that the charging light will flicker alot, but I can put it on "High Idle" to correct the problem. Even at high idle, my Belt and Secondary are NOT spinning.


Just some thoughts

RD

[swampdonkey]

its a 98 conquest. she has quite a few hours on it. dont know the hourmeter doesnt work anymore. ah as for alternator not sure. just mentioning alternator as means of charging.. what do these machines have as a charging system. the belt does seem to sit on the primary clutch shaft and will turn the secondary at idle. not sure if u'd be using the same belt but what number belt are u using from argo or have u gone aftermarket. you mentioned before that you had done mods to both ur clutches.. and if you can high idle the machine now and ur primary doesnt engage then maybe thats the way i should go. tighten up the primary so it will not engage until higher rpm. any suggestions on brand of secondary clutch to put in this machine??

[Roger S]

I would prefer a slow idle, not charging, easy shifting. If it won't start, I'd look at the battery, charging system, etc. A weak battery that can't hold a deep charge will act that way. We night ride, lights and winching, lot's of idling and no problems, if battery and charging in good shape. Another idea is a switch to turn the brake fan off for warm ups and extended idling. It draws 8 amps.

Shift into reverse from neutral, then into a forward gear for less clashing.

Most argo's belt and trans clutch spin at idle, just from the belt rolling on the shaft.

[Rock Doctor]

As Roger said, a slow idle is best. I only put mine on "high idle" when it's cold out, and I want to keep the temp up, or I want to run auxiliarys. A switch for the brake fan is also a great idea ( I have not done mine yet, but plan to, one of these days)
Also, as stated, most Argo secondary's spin at an idle, it's very common, but that is what causes the trans to grind when shifting.

Not sure what my belt # is, but it is a Factory Argo Belt. Also, I am not running an aftermarket Secondary, it's stock with the spring tightened up one notch.
For your Primary, if the spring is getting weak, you can shim the spring or just replace it.
My Conquest is a 2004, and I replaced both clutches last fall (didn't NEED to, but I wanted a spare set). I rebuilt the old clutches, and there was a noticable difference betweent the old Primary Spring and the new one. Even with a new set of clutches, I was not happy with the engagment RPM, or the rate of "backshift". My solution was to shim the Primary to increase engagment RPM, and I tightened the secondary to increase the rate of "backshift"
I would have to check to make sure, but I think I used a 5/32" welding rod as my shim. Bend it into a circle, the same diamiter as the spring, trim to length, and put it into the clutch under the spring.

Hope this helps, or at least gives you some ideas

RD

[swampdonkey]

ya i would prefer a slow idle myself but it just didnt seem like the mahcine wants it like that. i guess i could test the battery to see if its taking a full charge.. dont really think the grinding is too bad for it.. its not like theres alot of power through the clutch to damage teeth.(i can stop the clutch by hand most of the time) its just annoying as hell. the clutching is one thing i dont want to get into myself but i know i'll have to do something with the secondary for sure. before it flies apart and kills someone at "wot" anyone know how to go about ordering a new clutch say from comet?? i imagine they would have cross reference to these machines to see what itd take thanks for the help so far guys.. ill look into the battery tonite if all goes well and get back to ya guys with my findings

[Rock Doctor]

What do you think is wrong with your Secondary? They are VERY easy to rebuild.
What do you feel would be the advantage to running a Comet Clutch? In my experience Comet's are more of a "High RPM" Clutch, and Argo Clutches are more of a "Low RPM"

RD

[swampdonkey]

secondary is cracked all over (little spider cracks showing up) and waiting to fly apart and break someones leg. as for comet. just an idea. lucks not too good with argo and would buy from somewhere else if possible. comet clutches are geared more towards speed??

[Rock Doctor]

secondary is cracked all over (little spider cracks showing up) and waiting to fly apart and break someones leg. as for comet. just an idea. lucks not too good with argo and would buy from somewhere else if possible. comet clutches are geared more towards speed??

I would really like to see some pics of that (not doubting you, just would like to see it), do you have a digital camea with a Macro Setting, for good close up pics?
I would hate to see something like that fly apart, OUCH!

When I think of Comet Clutches, I think of High RPM (7,000-10,000 RMP), not high speed. They may very well make something compatible, I just don't know about it.

[swampdonkey]

macro setting?? over my head ahh have a canon powershot.. i guess not too bad.. if i can just figure out how to download on to a piece of s--t computer. the part thats spidering is the caged spring part with the ramps. ya ill screw around with this puter and see if i cant figure it out

[greggv2007]

secondary clutch

Hi Swampdonkey I purchased a new secondary for my 6x6 argo from MFG Supply.com It run me about $200. The number was 292212A, which is a Comet number. It is just over 9 inches diameter and will take a 1 3/16 to 1 1/4 inch wide belt. You can email Bill@sales@mfgsupply.com and they will tell you if they have one in stock. It was cheaper and faster than going through an Argo dealer.

[Rock Doctor]

Hi Swampdonkey I purchased a new secondary for my 6x6 argo from MFG Supply.com It run me about $200. The number was 292212A, which is a Comet number. It is just over 9 inches diameter and will take a 1 3/16 to 1 1/4 inch wide belt. You can email Bill@sales@mfgsupply.com and they will tell you if they have one in stock. It was cheaper and faster than going through an Argo dealer.

Cool,
Does it look the same as an Argo Secondary? And is there a difference in performance? Upshift, Downshift.

I think I paid closer to $300.00 for my clutch last fall, from an Argo Dealer

RD

[swampdonkey]

where abouts is mfg based.. ya id like to know how it is compared to the one say id be running right now. any input appreciated