Vampire ASXs on Avenger...

[Pophamrt1]

They fit. And, they look MEAN. They're the 26x12x13.5 directional ASXs--the same setup Mighty Max has been playing with on his Max IV.

I've been playing around with trying to fit them on a Conquest, but decided to try them out on an Avenger before going through the axle movement exercise. So far they fit with room to spare, without spacers, plenty of tub clearance and between tires. Even a nice gap between the front and 2nd tire sets.

Now I just need another pair to make 8 (only have 6 since they were robbed from a Max IV). Once I've had a chance to try different air pressures and run them a bit I'll post pictures and feedback on performance.

[jpswift1]

Very cool!!! That's going to be one extremely capable machine with 8 ASXs on it.....there was a 6x6World member that put 8 25x13x9 regular Super Swamper Vampires on his Argo 8x8 and that machine seemed like it could go just about anywhere. Can't wait to see the pics and video!

[LarryW]

Holy cow, hurry up and get 2 more tires!!! I cant wait.

[mightymaxIV]

Pop, you are sure to be the dominate dog with that tire set no matter where you go! You must post some video! In about two weeks we will get to find what MUDBug3's ASX equipped Mudd Ox will do. I look forward to seeing some video of both machines.

[Pophamrt1]

Well, its hard to describe the effect these tires have on an 8 wheel machine. I put it in mud, slippery grassy slopes with 45 degrees angles (can't walk up them), a mogul field of 3-4 ft high wet dirt piles, and some hard pavement. The only thing I didn't try was swimming and truly nasty mud bogs.

I first ran the Avenger with stock 25" Rawhides as a baseline for comparison. With the Rawhides, the Avenger never got stuck, but there's a totally different feel. The Rawhides, like the Runamuks on the Conquest, like to slip. As you're moving over difficult terrain, wet slopes, etc., particularly at pivot points like cresting a slope with loose dirt or mud, you can feel the tires slipping and then hooking up. Sometimes the machine would require some decent additional power, and wheelspin, to make it over the top. With the ASXs on an Avenger, the best description of the traction is "tank like." You can literally crawl in low gear over areas you had to use momentum to get through. There's virtually no sensation of slipping, fishtailing, tearing up dirt, etc., it just bites and pulls the machine through with no fuss.

One of my concerns was that the added weight and size of the ASX/12" rims would make the machine feel heavy, cumbersome and generally slow. Not so at all. Its very hard to tell the difference in acceleration. Steering is just as easy as before with the Rawhides, even on pavement. The raised front and rear axles obviously help, and the compound and tread orientatation of the ASXs don't "hook" sideways--they allow the lateral movement you need for the skid steer motion.

Ride quality was also a concern with the big machine and 12" diameter rims. But, it actually seems a bit better, even at 4PSI. Not harsh; soaks up the bumps just as nicely as the Rawhides and with the setup it can still go down to 1psi for full-on mud traction or comfort.

Fitment on the Avenger allows up to about 5-5.5 PSI before the front and 2nd axle sets start touching. This is excellent as I was worried that I'd only be able to use them at low and the higher PSI needed for rocks and rim protection wouldn't be possible. There's about 1.75" of clearance between the innner tire wall and tub without even using any spacers and 2-4" clearance (depending on location) between the tire and fender surfaces, all 4PSI.

The ASX setup was for the Max IV, which is now off to greener pastures--sold. The effect was similar, the kicker is that the Avenger's long 8x8 wheelbase make it stable as a rock, so you can take advantage of the insane amount of grip because of huge stability--extreme climbing, weird angles, its all comfortable. I had the machine at well over a 45 degrees on approach to 4ft high dirt piles and teetered it on the top. It never felt unstable in any way, or for that matter, slipped. There's an "anchoring" effect to the ASX-Avenger combination.

The only downside is that the tires stick out about 4" past the body lip so mud gets everywhere. And if you hit gravel or stones after mud its like a hailstorm--even big rocks. Full-body mudflaps are mandatory. Bearing and axle stress could be an issue long-term but considering the axle support Argo uses, splines, 60 and double 50 series chains, etc., and Mighty Max having run them on his Max IV, its a solid platform for supporting the ASXs. Possibly some reinforced axle flanges and added center axle supports.

This was all done with with just 6 ASXs on Recreative/Kawasaki 12x12(10) beadloc rims, and two stock Rawhides on Argo wheels. I'll try water next.

Wow, what a blast. Considering these just fit the Avenger's 79" wheelbase, the Conquest would require 79" too. Problem is that realistic movement of axles there is only 77" before you foul the tub at the front and rear. The Conquest would likley run 1 PSI ASXs if the axles were spread to 77", but not any higher PSI, so rocks, stumps, etc., would be a problem. A whole other issue is the obiously stronger frame and chain system of the Conquest, and 200 lbs lightwer weight, but that's a whole other post.

Sorry for the quality of the pictures... lighting was off.

Rear Side.jpgFront.jpgRear.jpgSide.jpg

[mightymaxIV]

OMG, that is the baddest looking Avenger i have ever seen-Bad to the BONE! I have found them same thing as you with ASX stability. It's outstanding and gives you confidence to do things you wouldn't normally do. I wonder what your swim speed will be? I am guessing 1.75 mph but it could be better with an Argo tub. We will have to see. hope you can get that thing in the mud and get some video. Congradulations on a beautiful machine. Together we can improve the AATV world!

[Pophamrt1]

Thanks MightyMax. I tried swimming the ASX equipped Avenger this afternoon. It moves at a good clip; likely more than 2mph. But... it is squirrely to control. The lake I put it in is large and has a fair amount of wind. I had visions of drifting away. I managed to make a short straight run and then control it enough to turn and head back to shore. It was really difficult to point it to a specific landing spot between trees.

I think I need to add a little leaning and some forethought to wind catching the body. It behaved very much like the video of Mike swimming with the ASXs for the first time on his Max IV. I now understand what he was saying about control. You know its there but its a bit of an adventure finding it.

Once I mount the GPS I'll be able to get a better idea of actual speeds. It was incredibly stable though and rode closer to level than I thought it would.

[DerekF]

Hey that is great. I have vampire on my avenger. I totally agree with the analysis on the tires. Honestly, I am surprised that more guys don't have them or other tires like that on their machines. My only issue has been keeping air in the tires when they are pressured down to 2psi.



As for traction, here is a video of my machine pulling a moose over a log pile in about 8 inches of snow. The ground was not too frozen and the tires where able to grab quite well.

[DerekF]

Oh, and mine don't swim worth anything!

[mightymaxIV]

Whhooooaaa! Derek you went over that log in the snow like it was nothing! With tires! That moose looked almost as big as your machine! Wow! What a performance.

[mightymaxIV]

POp, I think you will find that the machine will control if you run the tires <><> foward backward forward backward. I don't know why but this brings back the control. As for every other condition those ASX tires will do the Job for you!

[Pophamrt1]

That's incredible. Dragging 900lbs in 8" of snow yet no tracks, you climb over a large fallen tree? Without the video I don't think most people would believe it. I've watched it 3 times. Thanks for posting. I've got the ASXs on there, with the side lugs, so swimming may be a bit better than the regular Vampire TSLs. Time and experimentation will tell. I'm going to try Mighty Max's tire orientation too--thanks Dan.

What rim are you running that they're coming off at 2 PSI? The Kawasaki/Recreative K-Locs? When I mounted the ASXs there was a bit of ##$##! trying to seat the bead. I can't imagine them coming off. Then again, I haven't climbed any trees dragging a moose through the snow. Blowing a bead would seem downright reasonable at that point.

[jpswift1]

That's incredible. Dragging 900lbs in 8" of snow yet no tracks, you climb over a large fallen tree? Without the video I don't think most people would believe it. I've watched it 3 times. Thanks for posting. I've got the ASXs on there, with the side lugs, so swimming may be a bit better than the regular Vampire TSLs. Time and experimentation will tell. I'm going to try Mighty Max's tire orientation too--thanks Dan.

What rim are you running that they're coming off at 2 PSI? The Kawasaki/Recreative K-Locs? When I mounted the ASXs there was a bit of ##$##! trying to seat the bead. I can't imagine them coming off. Then again, I haven't climbed any trees dragging a moose through the snow. Blowing a bead would seem downright reasonable at that point.

The Recreatives K lock rim is only available in 8" and 12" diameters. I have never lost a bead with these rims, and it is extremely rare that I ever hear of anyone doing so. If tires are mounted on the 9" Argo rims, there is a very good chance that they'll lose a bead. Many people have complaints about Argo wheels because of this issue.

[plott hound]

tell ya what,2 guys in the machine pulling a moose over a log is pretty impressive.my honda rincon cant hold a candle to that.

good stuff!

[DerekF]

These rims are the Matt's Muddox rims. They are good rims, and I should clarify that they do not come off the rim, only that they leak when I run them at low PSI. At 4 PSI, no problem. It is more of a tire issue than a rim. Also, the cold up here doesn't help. I bought bead lock and plan to use that to help.

Interestingly, the was not one tree but actually about 5 big trees blocking the road. I could not believe we climbed it as easily as we did. It really is a tribute to the tires.