Another Rescue Mission

[Rock Doctor]

10:00 PM here, and I just got a call from a buddy. He's broke down about 10 miles out in the bush with his brand new HDI. He said he was hauling a load of 2x6 lumber, nothing he hadn't done before with his Conquest, but it would apear as though ODG might be making the lower Tubs out of thinner plastic than they used to. Buddy said that the weight of his load squashed his tub down and the rear tires of the machine ate holes through the lower tub......quite badly. Holes are about a foot long and who knows how wide.
Machine has about 6hrs on it

This is not a SLAM the HDI thread, just wondering if anyone knows if the tubs are thinner now than they used to be. He said it looks like the tub is only about 1/8" thick. I just looked at my Conquest and I would say it's closer to 1/4".

I will head out with tools and parts tomorrow, but will not be reporting back untill next week sometime. I might as well make a trip out of it and catch some fish while I'm out there.

RD

[Robinhood02]

I dont think they are thinner but if it was a hot day it would soften it up a bit and make it more prone to sagging

[philipatmaxfour]

The rear seat in my 07 Avengerfastens in differently than the way i think the full width rear seat fits in in a Conquest. The short seat snaps into a bracket that goes down to the frame. When the seat is out that bracket might give a lot more strength to the rear body. Too bad the rear seat is optional.

[Rock Doctor]

OK, back from that little project. Still not sure if the new lower tubs are thiner or not, but I think they are a bit, OR ODG has started using a different plastic. That HDI is not even close to as strong as I think it should be, in some regards. The guy that owns this one "half jokingly" offered to trade machines with me, I "No Jokingly" turned him down
Here is what I came up with, it's not the prettiest bush fix out there, but it worked.

This is all he was loaded up with, a good load, but not what I would have considered EXCESSIVE

This is how we got the back of the tub pushed back up, it worked OK, but still needs some work.

The hole is like this on BOTH SIDES. The other side is not quite as bad.

A little perspective

Silicone seal first.

Patch, I heat formed it then glued and riveted with backing washers. The red plastic came from a "Dog Treat" bucket.

[Mike]

Man, that's a heck of a tear.

[Roger S]

The side of the upper tub looks normal thickness, but the horizontal area above the tire looks very thin. Must have been the mold process stretching it? Wow. Oh well, another reason to appreciate our older argos. Upgrade the tires and engines and call it good.

[Rock Doctor]

The side of the upper tub looks normal thickness, but the horizontal area above the tire looks very thin. Must have been the mold process stretching it? Wow. Oh well, another reason to appreciate our older argos. Upgrade the tires and engines and call it good.

The area above the tires was worn down to that thickness from the tires rubbing on the plastic. That's why I made the patches cover so much area. I'm still not sure just what the differance is, but we have a plan to beef it up so this does not happen again.

[flip6]

This is an interesting issue. Regarding the thickness of the tub, I'm unsure but it's certainly possible that Argo has done some trimming to cut costs or save a few lbs. What I'm curious about is the means by which the load was attached/transfered to the tub. It looks like the deflection point was at the intersection between the vertical wall and the horizontal fender. In other words the top fender was forced to roll over on to the tire. Was the wood loaded across the back tub? Was there wood on the back rack extension. Is the rack point loading the load at the connection between rack and tub? I see some bolting securing the rack at the point of deflection. Lastly, I'm sure you've come up with a suitable fix to prevent this from happening again but if it were me, I would build a simple removable metal frame that is u shaped and when placed in the back is equal in height with the side walls or rack system (which ever is highest and supports a cross load). The u-frame would transfer load down to the argo frame and being u-shaped, still allow you to fill the tub with gear below seat level. By the way, you guys did an excellent patch job for a field fix.

[Roger S]

I guess asking the plastic to carry the kind of loads you guys carry is a bit much. Supporting from the frame and trailer hitch would take care of the problem.

[Rock Doctor]

This is an interesting issue. Regarding the thickness of the tub, I'm unsure but it's certainly possible that Argo has done some trimming to cut costs or save a few lbs. What I'm curious about is the means by which the load was attached/transfered to the tub. It looks like the deflection point was at the intersection between the vertical wall and the horizontal fender. In other words the top fender was forced to roll over on to the tire. Was the wood loaded across the back tub? Was there wood on the back rack extension. Is the rack point loading the load at the connection between rack and tub? I see some bolting securing the rack at the point of deflection. Lastly, I'm sure you've come up with a suitable fix to prevent this from happening again but if it were me, I would build a simple removable metal frame that is u shaped and when placed in the back is equal in height with the side walls or rack system (which ever is highest and supports a cross load). The u-frame would transfer load down to the argo frame and being u-shaped, still allow you to fill the tub with gear below seat level. By the way, you guys did an excellent patch job for a field fix.

The top fenders didn't roll over onto the tire, the whole tub squished down. Yes the load was carried on the rack, and the rack is bolted to the splitline of the tubs. The whole suprise of this was that the load was not what we would have considered to be excessive. Lesson Learned, and your "Suitable Fix" is almost exactly what we are working out

I guess asking the plastic to carry the kind of loads you guys carry is a bit much. Supporting from the frame and trailer hitch would take care of the problem.

I agree Roger, we're working on it

[flip6]

While composing my previous post, I was considering the "tub squash" as an alternative. When viewing the photos, it looks like the maximum amount of fender erosion is at the outer edge. This got me to thinking the the roll over might be the culprit. As you say, the tub squashed so the vertical walls sagged under the load and this lowered the fenders onto the rear most wheels. That said, and the fact that you've hauled similar loads with your Conquest in similar conditions without problem, it's seems that Argos made changes to the tub spec. (plus you've visually noted different wall thickness). I agree, it's a lesson we can learn from. I hope you can post some photos of your fix.

[JohnF]

... it's seems that Argos made changes to the tub spec. ...

Didn't they change the shape? Strength in structures comes from material and shape.

Temporarily a person could lay a board across the tub and install posts from that board to the frame.

If I were to look at making a permenant fix, I would think about first installing a beam across the machine tieing the frame of the extension structure together. The beam will carry the load to the frame. One forward behind the seat and as out of the way as I could get and the other at the rear. I would probably carefully cut a small hole in the top along the seam and extend my bolt attachments through here (this is assuming I want the steel structure removable). Then I would make steel posts to carry the load to the frame from the beams. At the front I would try to be perpendicular to the frame with the posts buat at the rear that might get in the way. If at the rear there is much of an angle I would install a plate to carry the torsional load into the side of the frame. If I want this to be removable too I might build it so that the structure carries the load through bolts in shear (because bolting to the side of the frame would probably be easier) - so I would want BIG (in shear strength) bolts. Oh yeah, and depending on how you tie the beam to the extension, those bolts may be in shear too.

Oh, yeah, I think your extension frame is angle iron - I was imagining tube when I wrote the above. Then I think a clean install would be to build the beams out of angle with tangs on the ends that extend through at the seam such that the top is flush with the seam and bolt the frame through here. Cut the vertical part of the angle to match the inside with radiuses. Maybe double up the tang thickness.