Locking left and right axles together (momentarily)

[jwiereng]

To overcome the tendency of an open diff to send power the the side with the least resistance I am wondering if it is possible to fabricate some type or momentary coupling mechanism perhaps on the rear axle. With the flip of a lever the left and right axle are now joined. This would provide the same function as a diff lock.

Please comment.

[racerone3]

it would probably require a pair of jack shafts in the rear of the machine, but you might be able to incorporate an electric clutch from the deck of a riding mower to lock the 2 jack shafts together with the flip of a switch

[jwiereng]

Electric clutch. Great idea, that would greatly simplify it

[Rock Doctor]

A couple quick thoughts/comments:
If in a situation where you have good traction under one bank of tires and no or little traction under the other bank, IF you were to lock your diff, and apply power, your machine would turn into the mucky stuff where you are getting little to no traction.
But, if you were able to control how much power you were directing to EACH bank of tires, you can keep the machine , more or less, running in a straight line. This can be acomplished with the carefull application of your brakes. Braking slightly on the side that has no traction will direct SOME power to the side that does have traction. This will have the effect of allowing the side without traction to spin the tires fast, but also provide enough power to the side with traction to move the machine forward. The combination of fast spinning tires on the side without traction, with the slow turning tires on the side with traction will allow you to keep the machine moving in the direction you have it pointed.

I find that this is MUCH easier to do with the older style Argo steering than the newer style.

RD

[jwiereng]

The operating skills you are talking about are exactly what I thought would be best to do. Please note that I have an Argo it have never opperated it as it is in th process of getting rebuilt. I picked it up for free engine-less
The reason I ask about the locking diff is because I see much discussion in this forum about the 'true 6 wheel drive'. I have never operated a Max either but it think that Argo is wise to use the open diff to allow a skilled driver to apply the torque where it is best put.

As you can tell I am new so would you please elaborated on the differences between the old and new style contols that you mentioned.

[AlaskaGrizzly]

The older Argos have a brake lever for steering each side. The new ones have a handle handlebar you turn for steering.

Braking the side that has less traction gives more drive to the other side and it works good for getting through bad spots. Given enough time you'll get the feel for it. Another tip for getting through mud holes is to always try to put at least one tire one either side of the machine on something that gives good traction. My experience is spinning tires on an Argo just gets you stuck faster. It doesn't take much spinning to eat out the soft ground you're on and you'll be high centered in no time flat. Taking it nice and easy and keeping at least one side of the machine on something that gives traction seems like the approach to take.

[Roger S]

I have never operated a Max either but it think that Argo is wise to use the open diff to allow a skilled driver to apply the torque where it is best put.

An open diff is what argo happened to use untill lately, I assume due to patent rights/costs. The open diff doesn't bother me as much as the turning effort/power loss it causes. A max's tranny doesn't whine and has no power loss in turns. There are other + and - to the two trans, but we all manage to get around well once you learn the machine.

[jwiereng]

Do you know if the whining is inherent to an open diff or is it just because of the type of gears inside. I have not opened tha trans case, does the Argo trans have spur gears or Helical gears

[countrycummins99]

thats the great part about any machine with a T20 its like having one transmission for each side of the machine gives you infinte control if you know what your doing which takes some time. the other nice thing is ability to split shift and counter rotate which has got me out of quite a few hairy situations

[Roger S]

The pre avenger/frontier trans were not helical, thus the whine. It can be diminshed somewhat by thick lubes/additives, and esp loud exhaust

[Rock Doctor]

My experience is spinning tires on an Argo just gets you stuck faster. It doesn't take much spinning to eat out the soft ground you're on and you'll be high centered in no time flat. Taking it nice and easy and keeping at least one side of the machine on something that gives traction seems like the approach to take.

Good point, I was thinking more of the times I had one bank of tires on firm ground and the other bank swimming, with the Belly Pan sliding along the bank. Spinning on soft ground will definatly high center you fast, but spinning in "Soup" can get you out easier than slow and steady. Really depends on what conditions you are in, and it's difficult to relay that info with "words on a page"


RD

[Rock Doctor]

[I]The open diff doesn't bother me as much as the turning effort/power loss it causes. A max's tranny doesn't whine and has no power loss in turns. There are other + and - to the two trans, but we all manage to get around well once you learn the machine.

I agree with this as well, The issue that I'm finding is that these new Transmitions seem to be 500hr units. Of the 6 that I have anything to do with, all have piled the transmitions between 460 and 520 hrs. My experience with the older style is 1700 to 2500 hrs before rebuild, and the reason for the larger variation in the older style is becouse I only (Personally) have experience with 3 that have needed rebuild. I don't claim to be an expert, but when you consider the length of time that the older and newer styles have been in service, I think that does say something.
I do hope I'm wrong about that, this is just one guys experience talking.


RD

[JohnF]

... I do hope I'm wrong about that, this is just one guys experience talking.

Well, if we want to count your experience.

<From the geek corner> All of 6 seems statistically significant and the SDMTPT (standard deviation of mean time to piled transmission) is ridiculously tight. You wouldn't happen to know those machines' birthdates? Are any bumping against their second 500 hours? (I'm assuming replaced transmissions?)

As for the driving and dealing with the loss of power in turns: My rookie and very limited experience (98 conquest) tells me that the loss of power in turns, when one is navigating in deep snow or very soft sand, is important to keep at the front of ones awareness. Whoops. Easy to deal with (but no less annoying) once you get the hang of it. And I have no experience in any other AATV.

[Rock Doctor]

Well, if we want to count your experience.

<From the geek corner> All of 6 seems statistically significant and the SDMTPT (standard deviation of mean time to piled transmission) is ridiculously tight. You wouldn't happen to know those machines' birthdates? Are any bumping against their second 500 hours? (I'm assuming replaced transmissions?)

.

OK, here's the short version (I don't want to try to get into a whole bunch of details that I don't know. MOST of these HDI's are "Company Machines" located at sites where I DON'T work. I just made a call to get some info)

9 HDI's, 7 of them are 2010's (1 is a friends) 2 others are BRAND NEW (2011's, I'm told)
All 6 2010 Company Units piled their trans between 480 and 550hrs. All trans were sent back to dealers, and then forwarded to ODG for inspection. All took about 8-10 weeks to be returned (Rebuilt). No info is available to me as to what went wrong.
8 of these machines have had Fuel Pump, AND/OR O2 sensor failures.
1 of the 2011 machines was backed off the trailer, driven to the fuel tank for fill up, and piled the Trans when it was pulled away from the fuel tank (It never made it 1 km)

2 of the 2010 models are aproaching their 1,000hr mark, and SEEM fine, but they SEEMED fine while aproaching their first 500 as well.

This is starting to look like I'm "BASHING" HDI's, but that is not my intent. I would HOPE that if I was intending to purchase a machine, and asked for info, that I would get REAL life info from people that I asked.

Just made a call to another friend who, I just learned, also purchased a 2010 HDI. He just had to replace his Fuel Pump.

Sorry, I seem to be Highjacking threads today


RD

[JohnF]

I think it's relevant; but

Thanks for the info. When I first studied this machine and its inner working I wondered about trannys more along the lines of modern tanks. Definately the way to go to improve power efficiency. Just assumed the cost/benefit was too much for production.

Truth is, once it is worked out, I want one. Imagine a 40% increase in engine power (in turns) without too much of an increase in weight or space requirement.

I don't know, I haven't actually seen one, but it may be a simpler mod than the engine swap. (but then, who wouldn't do both? )