how to get more speed

[Russh]

I now have an early 70's argo 8x8 , that will only go half the speed of what it should!!!! My friends Hustler will go twice as fast, It has a 16hp vanguard, not sure if the clutch is working properly. It has a original 2 speed argo trans. Is this machine supposed to be this slow???

[Robio_8x8]

Do you know your top speen in MPH?Or Kmh

The hustler is a fast machine but your Argo should be doing around 20mph / 30kms h stock

you can experiment with gear ratios and remove governors but if you are not getting up to 20mph there is something mechanically wrong with the Argo .



I find a GPS is the best way to record the speed if you do not have use mile markers and a stop watch

[boncrshr]

Good question....hopefully the brain trust will chime in. I was wondering the same thing lately as I have been running down the beach 12 miles each way to hunt the salt marsh. A few miles per hour more would be nice.

My question was how much does proper belt tightness affect speed? I smoked a belt a little bit when pulling a huge tree with my Hustler and now the belt is looser it seems. Gonna get a new one soon.

Hypothetically speaking, taller tires should increase your top speed? The fastest I have been able to hit is 24mph in my Hustler. That was with 22" Rawhides, green clutch spring (if that matters)...seems like I should be going faster with a 20hp?

[liflod]

Take some pictures of your belt and clutches to post. The belt could be too loose or just worn out. Measure the belt across. It should be larger than 1" but I'm not sure of the specs on the Argo stuff.

Revving the engine in neutral should put the belt at the top of the clutch on the engine side and at the very bottom of the transmission side. If it does not go the whole way up or down, the belt is too loose or too narrow.

The engine could also be running too slow and not revving high enough. Check for excess play in the throttle cable. There should be very little play between the throttle and the carb linkage.

[liflod]

Adjusting the governor for higher engine speed will increase top end speed.

I adjust my belts pretty darn tight. I usually aim for 1/8" of clearance between the belt squeezed together with my hands and the center or the engine clutch.

[liflod]

The way the clutch is supposed to operate:

1.The engine revs up, clutch squeezes belt.

If the belt is too loose or too thin, the engine has to rev higher to engage the belt and also the belt is riding higher in the clutch (higher gear ratio,less pulling power)

2 As the engine speed increases, the belt rides higher on the engine side ( higher ratio)
3. The belt can only ride so high on the engine, because the belt is riding high on the transmission side. If there is little resistance on the transmission, the tension on the belt will pull the belt lower on the transmission side, allowing the belt to climb higher on the engine side.(higher ratio)
4. If the belt is too loose, the belt will ride up on the engine side and not have enough tension to pull the belt to the bottom of the transmission side, keeping you from attaining the highest gear ratio.
5. The transmission side is normally "torque sensitive" It keeps the belt riding high when you need more torque -"lower ratio"- and allows the belt to fall into a -higher gear ratio -when it does not sense alot of torque needed.

Morale of the story, if the belt is too loose or too thin, you will not get the lowest gear ratio for power and you will not get the highest ratio for speed.

Hope this helps and doesn't cause any more confusion.

[hydromike]

Revving the engine in neutral should put the belt at the top of the clutch on the engine side and at the very bottom of the transmission side. If it does not go the whole way up or down, the belt is too loose or too narrow.

Right on Mr. Liflod...This is really the easiest way to make a quick assessment of your driveline. Drive clutches are moving parts, and most people don't remember that as a moving part, they require maintenance. Dry lubricant such as powdered graphite is really the best overall choice, but in a cinch, I like to take the belt off, and dowse the hole internals with as much WD-40 as possible. Depending on what clutch you have (I don't know what Argo's used back then... Salsbury?), it's made out of plastic and aluminum. Aluminum oxidizes, and old plastic gets brittle and breaks. Lots and lots of hours on some clutches can cause the rollers and their associated pins to become worn, too. When I bought the RIM, I was really disappointed with bad vibration and low top speed. The clutch was toast, and one of the arms wasn't ramping up.

Anyway, this is the long way of saying what Lance said. Rev the pig up and see if the belt is riding up the drive clutch as it should be. Just be safe... Don't stick 'yer nose down there, and for goodness sake, where some safety glasses. Like JoeH says... there's more metal in a spinning clutch than there is in a hand grenade...

~m

::edit:: The Hustler is TWICE as fast? What engine is in the Hustler? By your text, I'm not sure if your friend's Hustler has the Vanguard 16, or if you have it in your 8x8...

[Russh]

belt problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My husler smoked a belt the first time I really ran the unit, for what it is worth, keep those belts fresh op to pare!!! it is no fun being towed back!!!! Any way , we just returned for a experimental ride with the argo, it is a guvener problem, I am NOT sugguesting any one should do what I just did, unless you a prepaired to loss a finger or more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But with one person running the unit, I was able to reach into the motor compartment and "play" with the linkages and the unit went for walking seek to around 20+mph instantly!!!! MANY THANKS!!

[Meinfield]

Hustler Speed

I do not know much about the Argo set ups, but I do have a little experience with the hustlers.
As liflod said, a loose belt will affect speed. Bon, if your motor mounts are not adjustable in your set-up you can always try installing a shorter belt. I like to run my belt fairly tight. I like to adjust mine to the point that when you press down firmly on the top side of the belt, you should only have 1/2 - 1 inch of vertical travel. The drive clutch should be spinning at idle if the t-20 is not engaged.
Since you have a unique set up on your Hustler, one of the best and least expensive changes you could make would be to drop down to smaller main drive sprockets (the sprockets that the t-20 drives). When I changed from a 38 tooth to a 34 tooth, I picked up about 10 mph! I would not jump more that two teeth at a time, until you see how the Honda reacts. Hope this helps!

[Roger S]

"Dry lubricant such as powdered graphite is really the best overall choice"

That's what I like! My old clutch had bushing wear, so the new one went in with a teaspoon of graphite poured in the sealed part of the shaft/bushings. I also carry it with me and stick it between the belt and squirt both clutches and belt. That'll let the belt slip to a stop so the argo shifts into gear like it had syncros. And the belt and cvt loves it, very smooth operation. Doesn't last long though.

[Matt O.]

Hi,
In the 1970's Argo put in low range transmissions in the eight wheelers. You can tell what gearing you have by looking on the top of the transmission. There will be a few numbers and a letter or 2. You can call the Argo factory with the numbers and letters and find out your transmissions range. If you do have the low range, you can buy the higher ratio gears to replace the low range gears.

Matt

[teeko]

If you had 100HP and a poorly tuned clutch, your machine would still be slow. Engine RPM and clutching are what gives you speed, not HP. HP helps get you there quicker. A 4 stroke with operating rpm of 3500rpm will be very different than a 2 stroke with an operating rpm of 8000rpm. You would be able to run different springs for engagement rpm as well as different weight cams for shift rpm. Clutching is a science. Try picking up the clutch tuning handbook or search for aaen racing. These guys wrote the book on clutching, literally!
There's no replacement for displacement.

[trevorakm1]

okay i'm gonna let my inexperience show here, i have questions. i also don't mean to highjack the thread so i appologize in advance. i have an 01 argo bigfoot and the only issue i have mechanically is shifting. i set the idle as low as possible without stalling and it shifts fine but as she warms up i have to start pulling the choke out to slow the idle enough to shift and not get the grinding. i would realy like it to shift smoothly consistently. i got a few suggestions, i set the idle so i had to initially have some choke on till she warms up, and someone mentioned the belt and wear. i would assume the belt has never been change on this machine as i'm the third owner. i don't know enough about clutches and such to figure this out alone. how do you tell if the belt is worn? are the pulley wheels actually changing position up down with respect to revving? is this something that is easy to observe? how loose should the belt be? are they easy to take off? how do i lube the clutch and lube with what? will adjusting the govenor change anything in terms of speed? lastly where is the govenor? i got 19 mph on a gps the time i checked it but that was before i checked all the tires had the same circumference, she pulled to the left so i had to keep giving right brake inputs. now she tracks straight but haven't done a speed test. i just want to get some effortless shifting continuously. i'ld appreciate some help and you should probably talk to me like i'm a 3 year old. thanks guys

trevor

[jerseybigfoot]

The gears grind in the trans because the driven pulley is spinning. if the belt is too tight it will have too much friction on the drive clutch shaft. if the belt is out of alignment between the drive and driven units it will drag on one side of the drive clutch sheave. Washers can be added to either the engine shaft or trans shaft to correct the alignment If the idle speed is too high the drive clutch will start to engage. To increase the drive clutch engagement RPM you can add shims to the spring to increase its tension.

[JohnF]

To increase the drive clutch engagement RPM you can add shims to the spring to increase its tension.

Are you into taking things apart and cleaning/fixing them? The clutches are a good place to gain experience with your machine. For lube I like graphite inside the drive/primary clutch and teflon wax for the driven/secondary clutch. Like jerseybigfoot mentions, perhaps your clutch spring has gotten weak enough that your clutches engage too easy. Rock Doctor has posted video for at least the driven clutch and there are many threads about rebuilding the clutches.

With engine off, the belt should sit proud of the driven clutch by a bit. I don't remember exactly, the number is in the manual, something like 1/8 inch. A warn out belt would be looser and not have the effect you are describing. A short belt (the wrong one) would. It is pretty easy to take the belt off - no tools required. The idea is that with the driven clutch all the way in (engine off) there will be enough slack that the belt can easily slip over the shaft of the drive clutch which should be all the way out.

On my machine I have the idle pretty low. I get a little grind going from neutral to any forward gear. Tiny. When this happens I can do the reverse->forward trick. If I have the idle too high I can't get into gear and grind is a pretty precise description of what it feels like trying.

Yes, the pulleys move up/down (your description) when reving. Yes, you can see this. Take the firewall off, leave the transmission in neutral. No loose strings or anything that can get caught in a spinning clutch and start it and rev it a bit. Stay away from the moving parts. DON'T try and stop anything with say your shoe OR ANYTHING. (Do as I say... )

19MPH is pretty good. I have the granny transmission and wish I could get 19 (sometimes).