650 HD Overheating

[maximilian]

Hi everybody. I'm new here and wonder if I'm the only one with the following problem: I've driven a Vanguard for 15 years, mainly in winter on regular tracks, and never had a problem. This is why I bought a new 650 HD last year. We use it to drive from 8000ft to 10000ft, about 10 miles on moderate incline, to our cabin, about once a week. Early on I noticed that the front of the passenger cabin got very warm, especially on the passenger side, so hot that you could heat your coffee in the cup holder. Yesterday when we drove back up the mountain, on a firm snow cover, at our regular speed of 5 to 6 mph, with the engine revving at 2000 to 3000 rpm, it got hot again and when I stopped, the idle went down to 800 rpm (instead of 1100 to 1300) and stalled a few seconds later. This happened twice. The trip usually takes about 1 and 1/2 hours. What I also noticed (maybe I'm getting paranoid with this vehicle; after delivery last year it took me several weeks to modify the carburator because the vehicle would not run; finally the dealer took it back and installed a new carburator, etc.) but yesterday I thought the vehicle lost power two or three times for a few seconds, after I had driven it for about an hour. The dealer says it's the brakes and suggests to install one or two bilge blowers. I'm using rubber tracks.
Any better solutions?
Thanks for any suggestions
Max

[Roadtorque]

Make sure the carb is jetted for the proper altitudes your running at. I've also read about other 650 HD owners having overheating problems which they solved by using marine fuel which doesn't contain ethanol. Apparently these engines dont do well with ethanol. It does seem odd to me that you are having these problems in the winter. I would think you still have pretty cold temps at those altitudes.

[Noel Woods]

I think this is a common issue w/the Briggs 23hp, My Argo did the same, I ran it a few times without the hood and all was well, I ended up putting two intakes on the hood as well as a bilge blower that pulls air from the firewall into the engine compartment, now no problems. The factory set up is I think too restrictive, as heat builds, performance drops. I've never seen a manufacturer place an air cooled engine in a compartment in which air wasn't maximized. I've seen two other 650HDs with similar issues as well. I think Argo is aware of the issue as well.

[maximilian]

My carburator was jetted back and forth, I think three times, before I got the new one (actually one from the previous year). The engine would not overheat if the carb were jetted for sea level; it would run too rich, i.e. would be cooled by too much gasolin. Thanks anyhow.

[maximilian]

Thank you, Noel. Makes me feel better. Doubly so, first because my Argo is not alone with the problem, and second, that you confirm the solution suggested by my dealer. I've placed a call to Argo; we'll see what their response is. Running without the hood is not such a good idea because on the hood I have two snow shovels and two pairs of snow shoes. Do you think it would be possible to send me some pictures of your set-up via e-mail mhcons@gojade.org. Would be highly appreciated.

[pcmark]

My 580 runs very hot, as well -- and I was advised of this at purchase. I've always used Royal Purple oil/lube, and marine fuel additive. If you read the board, many users run with their hoods off (I've never done that because I don''t want debris in my tub). But, I, too, remain perplexed why ODG hasn't built in a logical airflow system? I've wondered if the scooped HDi hood will fit on my 2011 6x6 580, as I think the scoop alone might help.

[mudbug3]

The 2011 Argo Frontier that I recently purchased ran really hot with the hood on, and when it got really hot the engine would sputter and cough just like the choke was on. The plastic cover in front of your legs would get so hot that you felt the engine heat radiating onto your legs.I later started riding with the hood off. I really did'nt like doing this because it was a new machine and people were always asking me why I ran with my hood off with a new machine. One of the reasons that my engine ran so hot was the extra quite muffler on the new 2011 models. I installed a new less restrictive muffler made for a 2008 Argo Frontier and this helped a lot. The engine now runs cooler and the exhaust note is also a little deeper too.

This is a video of the cool air intake that I made for my Argo Frontier. With the cool air intake and the 2008 less restrictive muffler I installed I can now drive with the hood on and the back fires , sputtering ,and over heating problems have now stopped. I bought the aluminum plate and the vertical K&N air filter from Performance V twins.

[Tomo]

Hi,
With combined experience of my swamp fox [bando vanny ] and a friends argo refitted with 22hp vanny .
Rejet carby for altitude ,with no air ,fuel will be a liittle excessive boardering on difficult to operate causing u to be little more abusive in operation than normal .

As previous people have stated but taking it further .
Cold air induction
run air intake to best position prefer outside of body
The air coolling vents in the engine cover that supplied air to filter assembly BLOCK THEM UP .This provides additional cooling to c/heads
Use an inline muffler eg 2 into 1 . The key is inline [in air flow ] THAT WAY U HAVE UNRESTRICTED EXIT POINT unlike stock muffler that sits across heads and partially blocks the flow of heat .
Heat wrap primary pipes .
prefer to run with no engine cover
bilge pump fans for disc cooling if u need
hope this helps

tomo

[maximilian]

Thank you to all of you who commented. I was under the - obviously mistaken - impression that when you buy a new vehicle it will run without major modifications. I used to enjoy improving vehicle when I was younger, but only to either personalize them, or to really make them better; and not just to get them to where you'd expect a new vehicle right out of the factory to be. What a let-down after my first (1996) Vanguard.

[radar]

Has ODG taken care of this issue in 2012 ?

[rapidroy]

I think this issue is why ODG has changed back and forth on engine manufacturers over the years. It appears the Kohler does better in confined spaces than does the Briggs. I asked why Honda was never an option and the dealer told me that the Honda really did not like the small engine compartment. I am wondering if the EFI models have this issue or if just using the Kohler has taken care of it?

[mudbug3]

I was under the - obviously mistaken - impression that when you buy a new vehicle it will run without major modifications. I used to enjoy improving vehicle when I was younger, but only to either personalize them, or to really make them better; and not just to get them to where you'd expect a new vehicle right out of the factory to be. What a let-down after my first (1996) Vanguard.

Yes, I was under the same impression that you were when I got my 2011 , Argo Frontier. The story that I was told about the over heating problems were this:

' Argo had to replace some Briggs engines in the past because of over heating problems in the climate that the machine was run in.'

This is why the engines in the new machines now sputter and cough ,and if shut off and restarted before the engine has cooled down enough, the muffler blows black smoke. This is what my Argo Frontier did in Louisiana at temps of 80 degrees. In the video that I posted I used some truck radiator hose, stainless steel hose clamps, and then routed a vertical K&N air filter about 3'" inches back from where the cool air intake is that draws outside air into the engine. I know that this is a real frustration to have to do some thing like this, but I don't like running my new Argo with the hood off just to keep the engine cool.

[maximilian]

Question to mudbug3: why did you not just drill a hole through the hood and run the hose straight up with the air filter outside the engine compartment? I cannot do this because I carry two snow shovels and two pairs of snow shoes on my hood, but I would not think you carry snow shoes on your hood in Louisiana.

[mudbug3]

Question to mudbug3: why did you not just drill a hole through the hood and run the hose straight up with the air filter outside the engine compartment? I cannot do this because I carry two snow shovels and two pairs of snow shoes on my hood, but I would not think you carry snow shoes on your hood in Louisiana.

I did think about cutting a round hole in the hood right over the vertical K&N air filter thats mounted on the carburetor , but later changed my mind because this would alter the resale value if I decided to sell my Argo and some one did'nt like the look of what I had done. Where I have the K&N filter mounted now draws cooler air and is also shielded from having mud and water thrown onto it if the K&N came out of the hood.

[Karl]

You could always install the hood scoop kit from the HID (Parts: 602-60 and 602-59) just to keep it looking STD ARGO.