What is going on with ODG and Argo?

[jerrynuss]

So what is going on with Argo and dropping dealers and distributors? Does anyone have any real knowledge about it and can provide what is happening and why?

[Robio_8x8]

I am not sure but I can tell you what I have seen

I would not consider this to be Argo or ODG fault but the two dealers I deal with do not seem to support there products enough.
The dealer up in central Ontario I was going to see looks like they went out of business and there web site is gone. The other dealer I go to in the Toronto are has a show room filled with jap scrap and not even one Argo. I have ordered some parts through the Toronto location and even the most common stuff needed to be specialty ordered. The Part guy was friendly and help full but I am not impressed with the owners inventory choices.

No wonder why people do not know about these types of machines you never see them in a show room and even the dealers that carry them sell many other lines. I will contact ODG and see what I can find out.

You sound like a max dealer who might be trying to start a nasty rumor about Argo but you common enemy are the quads

[philipatmaxfour]

ODG dropingdstributors

I would not consider this to be Argo or ODG fault but the two dealers I deal with do not seem to support there products enough.
The dealer up in central Ontario I was going to see looks like they went out of business and there web site is gone. The other dealer I go to in the Toronto are has a show room filled with jap scrap and not even one Argo. I have ordered some parts through the Toronto location and even the most common stuff needed to be specialty ordered. The Part guy was friendly and help full but I am not impressed with the owners inventory choices.

No wonder why people do not know about these types of machines you never see them in a show room and even the dealers that carry them sell many other lines. I will contact ODG and see what I can find out.

You sound like a max dealer who might be trying to start a nasty rumor about Argo but you common enemy are the quads

Robio--YOU OWE JERRY NUSS an apology! Jerry was riding his Argos, posting pictures on AATV web sites, answering questions from newbies like I was and promoting this sport long before he became a Max dealer. It is also true that ODG have dropped distributors . If you can find out more information, we will all be interested ,but please do not jump to wild conclusions and totally unwarranted attacks on good people. As a fellow Canadian, I am embarrassed. W. Philip Cox

[Mike]

You sound like a max dealer who might be trying to start a nasty rumor about Argo but you common enemy are the quads

Why say stuff like that?

[MaxRules]

You sound like a max dealer who might be trying to start a nasty rumor about Argo but you common enemy are the quads

I only wish it was a rumor. I was a Max and Argo dealer until the end of last year. Now I still sell Maxs (or try to) but what has happened to Argo dealers and distributors is very sad. I just posted some info on Route 6x6 and I assume that is why Jerry posted this topic here. ODG will probably not like me posting this info because the truth hurts... but anyone who knows me knows very well that I'm not very good at being quiet! Take it for what it's worth:

I haven't spoken much on the Argo dealer issue for a number of reasons. It's mostly just plain unfortunate and aggrevating when you know what has happened to a once great company. People like my distributor, Gene and Betty Lintz, and the distributor in Indiana, Greg and Becky Orr, have been selling Argos for 30+ years. I have personally never delt with better people in ANY business. These were just two of the distributors that were basically shut down and treated like garbage by Argo. I'm glad the Orrs left Argo for doing that as I'm sure it severily hurt ODG's sales. Gene Lintz has stayed in the Argo business as a dealer just because he loves the product so much. I hope that one day ODG will wake up and beg these people to come back on board.

I still sell things for Gene every now and then. I was given a chance to sign on with Argo directly as a dealer for them. I would have to buy "X" number of vehicles to keep on hand and pay high shipping rates to get them to my shop. Before this policy change, I could simply drive to Gene's warehouse to pick up any vehicles or accessories that I needed. He would regularly order a dozen or more Argos at once, making shipping rates very low. I could get any accessory or part from gene within two days by regular UPS ground. If I were a direct dealer from ODG, these parts would need to be shipped direct to me from Canada, taking much more money and time. The distributor advantages are just endless. An independent dealer simply can't stock enough vehicles or parts in this very low volume market.
Being an Argo dealer was very fun and enjoyable and I hate that the structure has been torn down. Argo is a great product but I simply couldn't force myself to sell for a company that thought nothing of me. Near the end of my dealership last year, I did two brake cable warranty upgrades for two of my customers. That was the free upgrade that ODG gave after they screwed up the brake lever cable on the handle bar steering models. I had to buy these cables outright and install them and apply for the money back from ODG in their online system. I did that just as they were converting from distributor to dealer direct. ODG owes me about $60 for those parts and they refuse to pay me. They simply say I was not a dealer at that time and I was since I still logged on to their online system to apply for the credit. They have gone from a company that existed through people that loved the product to a company that is run by people who want to screw you out of a dollar.

[Robio_8x8]

I will apologize if I was misunderstood

The comment made was intoned to form more of an alliance to be created between Max and Argo against the Quads

I like Jerry’s site and I am glade to see that both current AATV manufactures are North American built

From what I see Jerry’s MAX site is not like the AATV dealers I see in my area it looks much much better.
The AATV dealers that I have seen so far in my area do not promote or market the products like I think they should. The Argo or Max is like a side line to them and have little to no inventory yet they have tons of imported products that have little to no interest to me .

[Marc]

Do you know Crayford ?
They were the distributor for europe once and i had a contract with them for selling Argo in germany. But ODG broke my contract one day before Crayford could send me the vehicles and i lost a lot money which i wasted for advertising in before. ODG sold some vehicles directly to an other german who sold his self better than i did. I told them the truth that i dont have very much money but that im a good salesman and that my heartblood belongs to aatvs and that i had build a big garage and i want to buy five different vehicles for the first opening but this seems to be not enough. The other german also started in a simple double garage, which was shown in a tv show. But in my opinion, and in the opinion of some of his customers which i know, he has no knowledge and no interest about aatvs at all. It seems he even could not compare Max agains Argo - i asked him about the differences and he said "we have a 8x8" - So if this is what ODG wanted, then hey - they get it !
And Crayford, one of the oldes distributors, get a kick and lost his europe distribution.
Sorry if i bore you but this was a cut through my heart and as i had seen this thread the whole thing comes up again.

[McCoy]

Robio, I still think you owe Jerry Nuss a direct apology. Even though I am a die hard Argo man, there is no way that I would take a stab at any Max dealer the way you did. That is not cool!

McCoy

[Buyargo]

NO SPAM

[Amphiman1]

Argo,Max etc..

Hummm... Perhaps it is time for a new Manufacturer of 4/6/8 wheelers too? Also with readily available over the counter parts..

[Joe M]

Seems, things like this happen to a lot of companies. Look what AMF did to Harley Davidson back in the 70's. They ran that company into the ground! Then people who cared about the product, bought the company and turned it around. Hope this doesn't happen too Argo!

[jerrynuss]

Since I started the thread and a couple of people have been banned I want to explain my thoughts and position on this and why I asked. Most of you know but there are people that are new to amphibious atvs and they may not know how small of industry it is and changes in the business model of a company can have a big ripple effect with long term consequences. The guys that have had their favorite manufacturers go out of business will understand.

I want the grassroots dealers of all amphibious atvs to be successful and promote the sale and use of amphibious atvs. If a company makes it impossible for a small dealer to sell their product then the product will only be available at a large retailer and that retailer can control pricing, service, and availablity.

I saw where Brandon Price had stopped being an Argo dealer but I did not know why considering he promoted them very well I couldn't understand why the company would make it so he was no longer a dealer.

I started my Max dealership because I was out riding in my Argo and was always getting approached by people and asked questions about it. I'd get stopped at the gas station, stopped at a commercial off road park by guys on quads and motorcycles. They all asked the usual question and... where can I get one. I liked Max and knew they have been around for a long time. The local Argo dealer was still 80 miles away but he covers the territory well.

After speaking with some other dealers I knew I could not afford to become an Argo dealer. I could not afford to stock parts and meet the minimum order requirement. I asked Max dealers about the company and I contacted Recreatives. There was not a dealer in my area. They said no problem even letting me start it out of my house. I didn't have to stock a large inventory of parts. In fact I didn't have to stock any parts. I did have to maintain a machine on hand and use it for demonstration purposes. I consulted with Brandon and Fred Sowerwine and with their input I decided to get the dealership.

Recreatives has held true to their word. They don't bother me or make any crazy demands. I try to have some new machines available and some almost new condition used vehicles in stock. I have a few parts but to stock everything would be too much for me. I maintain my website and pay for local and some internet advertising. I have not sold a Max yet this year.

Richard Clark is not a dealer of any manufacturer but he has parts, so I support him as much as possible because he is willing to stock parts or fabricate parts. Now he also has a staff of employees, a large warehouse that he pays a couple thousand dollars a month to rent. He has insurance on his inventory and insurance for when he fabricates a part. But he honors the dealers and has not tried to become a dealer.

He runs a site for people to use and promotes the amphibious atv. When I need a part quick I can call him and he will ship it to me with a bill or on some smaller parts he just says no charge. I needed a jackshaft adjuster for a customer with a used Max II. The factory didn't have one at the moment, I called Richard and he shipped it to me overnight and didn't charge me. I got the customers machine up and running for opening day of deer season.

Most of the dealers can't afford a lot of inventory of machines or parts. My dealership is not my sole source of income, it may be a negative income depending upon the season and economy. All my machines are bought from out of pocket money. I don't have anything on a floor plan or credit from the factory. I put out the initial investment and have to eat it if the machines don't sell. I try and cut costs as much as possible as do other dealers.

I like other dealers will drive to Buffalo and pick up a couple of machines at a time to try and save the shipping expense and make the product more affordable for the customer. By picking up a few machines and paying cash we get a price break and pass it on.

Shipping for the machines can add considerably to the price. To Illinois it is $625 per unit. On a basic Max II that is close to 10%. I have even used Uship when I couldn't get away from my real job or the weather was nasty and I didn't want the new machines exposed to the road spray in the back of a pickup and open trailer. The distributor network was a nice Argo system because of the shipping issue.

So how much money are we dealers making you may ask. Well Brandon and I mark up around $500 a machine over our cost. We are not trying to get rich, we are trying to sell machines and promote the amphibious atv.

I don't see the quad owner or manufacturer or dealer as my enemy. Yes they do take away from potential sales but so does everything. As a retailer we have to compete for the dollar. That dollar can go for anything; food, fuel, baby clothes, college tuition, a vehicle, etc.

By eliminating the distributors and making it difficult for small dealers Argo will have an effect on the industry. Less opportunity to get a machine and higher prices is what I expect. Maybe by cutting out the dealer they can pass some savings on to the customer but I doubt that will happen in the long run. Supply and demand will take over and with fewer dealers the supply will be less so demand will allow the large dealers to raise their prices.

I mentioned some people in this such as Brandon Price, Richard Clark, and Fred Sowerwine and it was not attacking them in any way. It is actually in appreciation for their assistance. I have owned and worked on Argo machines I consulted with Becky Orr numerous times and got parts from their distributorship. I got parts from Fred Sain several times and he would overnight them to me.

Everyone I have mentioned has been of assistance and an asset to the amphibious atv owners and I hate to see them have any business problems.

[boncrshr]

Interesting....just for the record, your original post was not inflammatory at all and just seemed like an honest question.

I don't see Argo's actions helping their business any. I do think that Max should make some minor changes in their machines to sell more of them, or maybe change the way that they advertise them.

But 10K+ is pretty steep for the average Joe Blow who does not have the fever like we do to spend on an amphib. with no suspension. Plus, those guys are under the impression that the 6x6 is not reliable or requires too much maintenance. So the guys that need that extra space or towing ability will go buy a Ranger. And I can tell you from experience, they are pretty awesome for the average guy. Of course, they won't touch our machines in the extreme terrain...and they don't float.

So, if I was Max I would consider:
1) Selling a Springer
2) Start getting the word out that the Max is reliable and low maintenance, and start taking some Max IV's to the some national mud events...get some free exposure.
3) Strive to keep costs down, while improving durability. Don't know if that is possible, but it is a good thing to keep in mind.

[pepper]

a springer 8x8 with a hig low transmission would be a great seller in my opinion.

[rdr]

Since I started the thread and a couple of people have been banned I want to explain my thoughts and position on this and why I asked. Most of you know but there are people that are new to amphibious atvs and they may not know how small of industry it is and changes in the business model of a company can have a big ripple effect with long term consequences. The guys that have had their favorite manufacturers go out of business will understand.

I want the grassroots dealers of all amphibious atvs to be successful and promote the sale and use of amphibious atvs. If a company makes it impossible for a small dealer to sell their product then the product will only be available at a large retailer and that retailer can control pricing, service, and availablity.

I saw where Brandon Price had stopped being an Argo dealer but I did not know why considering he promoted them very well I couldn't understand why the company would make it so he was no longer a dealer.

I started my Max dealership because I was out riding in my Argo and was always getting approached by people and asked questions about it. I'd get stopped at the gas station, stopped at a commercial off road park by guys on quads and motorcycles. They all asked the usual question and... where can I get one. I liked Max and knew they have been around for a long time. The local Argo dealer was still 80 miles away but he covers the territory well.

After speaking with some other dealers I knew I could not afford to become an Argo dealer. I could not afford to stock parts and meet the minimum order requirement. I asked Max dealers about the company and I contacted Recreatives. There was not a dealer in my area. They said no problem even letting me start it out of my house. I didn't have to stock a large inventory of parts. In fact I didn't have to stock any parts. I did have to maintain a machine on hand and use it for demonstration purposes. I consulted with Brandon and Fred Sowerwine and with their input I decided to get the dealership.

Recreatives has held true to their word. They don't bother me or make any crazy demands. I try to have some new machines available and some almost new condition used vehicles in stock. I have a few parts but to stock everything would be too much for me. I maintain my website and pay for local and some internet advertising. I have not sold a Max yet this year.

Richard Clark is not a dealer of any manufacturer but he has parts, so I support him as much as possible because he is willing to stock parts or fabricate parts. Now he also has a staff of employees, a large warehouse that he pays a couple thousand dollars a month to rent. He has insurance on his inventory and insurance for when he fabricates a part. But he honors the dealers and has not tried to become a dealer.

He runs a site for people to use and promotes the amphibious atv. When I need a part quick I can call him and he will ship it to me with a bill or on some smaller parts he just says no charge. I needed a jackshaft adjuster for a customer with a used Max II. The factory didn't have one at the moment, I called Richard and he shipped it to me overnight and didn't charge me. I got the customers machine up and running for opening day of deer season.

Most of the dealers can't afford a lot of inventory of machines or parts. My dealership is not my sole source of income, it may be a negative income depending upon the season and economy. All my machines are bought from out of pocket money. I don't have anything on a floor plan or credit from the factory. I put out the initial investment and have to eat it if the machines don't sell. I try and cut costs as much as possible as do other dealers.

I like other dealers will drive to Buffalo and pick up a couple of machines at a time to try and save the shipping expense and make the product more affordable for the customer. By picking up a few machines and paying cash we get a price break and pass it on.

Shipping for the machines can add considerably to the price. To Illinois it is $625 per unit. On a basic Max II that is close to 10%. I have even used Uship when I couldn't get away from my real job or the weather was nasty and I didn't want the new machines exposed to the road spray in the back of a pickup and open trailer. The distributor network was a nice Argo system because of the shipping issue.

So how much money are we dealers making you may ask. Well Brandon and I mark up around $500 a machine over our cost. We are not trying to get rich, we are trying to sell machines and promote the amphibious atv.

I don't see the quad owner or manufacturer or dealer as my enemy. Yes they do take away from potential sales but so does everything. As a retailer we have to compete for the dollar. That dollar can go for anything; food, fuel, baby clothes, college tuition, a vehicle, etc.

By eliminating the distributors and making it difficult for small dealers Argo will have an effect on the industry. Less opportunity to get a machine and higher prices is what I expect. Maybe by cutting out the dealer they can pass some savings on to the customer but I doubt that will happen in the long run. Supply and demand will take over and with fewer dealers the supply will be less so demand will allow the large dealers to raise their prices.

I mentioned some people in this such as Brandon Price, Richard Clark, and Fred Sowerwine and it was not attacking them in any way. It is actually in appreciation for their assistance. I have owned and worked on Argo machines I consulted with Becky Orr numerous times and got parts from their distributorship. I got parts from Fred Sain several times and he would overnight them to me.

Everyone I have mentioned has been of assistance and an asset to the amphibious atv owners and I hate to see them have any business problems.

amen jerry. i have delt with both brandon and richard they are first class . to bad ogd has had a change of heart . loseing dealers in this recesson is nuts . glad you are here .robbie