Manual brakes need help

[Captain]

I have a 80's 8x8 Argo with the 16hp tecumseh. It has manual brakes and I just can't seem to figure out on how to set them and keep them set. Brakes are not in new condition by any means but seem to work really good after I adjust them. I take it out to test drive it and within 5 min my adjustments are out and I'm fooling with them again or my steering is almost not there. There's two bolts on the brakes to adjust. The bolt that's closest to the motor I adjust it so it's amost touching the rotor but has no drag. There's two nuts on this bolt. (jam nut). I tighten them down good and tight but they continue to losen off after little use. When the steering lever is released it starts to slowly losen the nut. It happens on both sides. What can I do or try?

The back bolt and nut are tight so there's no free play. Maybe this is set up wrong? Any help would be great.

[AlaskaGrizzly]

Its been years but I had a machine with manual brakes for the first 10 years of owning a argo. I'll try to offer some advice.

First, do you have any washers between the nuts and the lever arm that applies the pressure to the brake pads? If not I think I had at least a flat washer and maybe a lock washer (can't remember for sure on the lock washer) on mine.

Second - Put on new nuts with the outer being a ny-lock nut. I remember the bolts that captured the two brake pads over the disc were fine thread. If you happen to have course thread consider changing them out for fine thread bolts.

Third - Keep two half inch wrenches handy! My mechanical brakes were a constant project to keep in tune. Not every 5 minutes but every couple of hours when I was really working the machine. Used to run 10 or so miles out to hunting camp. Usually made it in fine with gear but if I came out with a whole moose I usually found that I had to make small adjustments on the brakes.

[Captain]

I do have a washer between the nuts and the leaver arm. I have both fine thread bolts and on the one side I did try a ny nut. I put the ny nut on the inside and a regular nut to lock it in. It almost seems like the side with the ny nut loosens fast the the one without. Everytime I release the lever from a turn it loosens the nut a touch. Even by the time I've taken out back to try it out and back to the house they need readjusting. I do carry two wrenchs with me but I've never made it out on any kind of ride because of this. I'll try the ny nut on the outside position next. What about blue lock tight? I've only had the machine for about a month and there's other bugs to work out but I can't even get to those if I can't steer it.

[AlaskaGrizzly]

Sounds like you are trying all the right things. I would think the nyloc nut on the outside would make a better jamb nut combonation. Maybe try the strongest loctite available. I wish I could make other suggestions but its been too many years since I owned that machine.

[spookum]

HI guys! I have tried the blue lock tight and the nylock. Both will MELT AND FAIL. The last thing that im going to try is going down to the hard ware store and buying new grade 8 4 inch long fine thread bolts and castle nuts. Then im going to drill a hole in the bolt for a cotter pin. Nothing is more misrable than CONSTANTLY adjuting your breaks. I have even had 3!!! yah 3!!! nuts per bolt ALL tightend down and had no luck. (two were lock nuts, and then i tried two jam nuts, and then lock washers and then locking nuts (not nylock, ny stands for "nylon")

I have often wonderd if we could put a Teflon coated washer between the nut and the break arm.... Or something to decrease friction. Mechanical brakes work really well when they are adjusted properly.

[wildbill335]

Not sure if this is the right way but the owner before me drilled 2 small holes and used cotter pins to hold the breaks in the correct spot kind of looks like the same set up used on wheel bearings on a car. I figure I can used flat washers to control distance once my breaks wear enough. Like I said may not be the proper way but seems to work

[Captain]

The drilling idea is something I'm going to try. The breaks do work really well when first adjusted. I called a local dealer and he was asking if my pads are flat or worn on an angle. They are worn on a angle. So maybe new pads are needed? But they work well at first. Last night I went to the old manual I have and the breakdown shows two jam nuts and a washer. I'm guessing it should be working this way. I really like the idea of the hole in the bolt. Different sized washers will act as shims.

[spookum]

Use a Castle nut (ask for it at a hard ware store or auto parts store). The nut has slots in it so you can remove the cotter pin, turn it to the next "Slot" to tighten the breaks, and re pin it. It sounds like adjusting with "washers" COULD be a night mare in the feild... if you loose them or the nut you get to walk home. Dont let old MURPHY get one up on you!

[wildbill335]

I drove with the cotter pin for a week put about 20 miles on the argo and my breaks need no adjusting washers and nuts are cheap so carry extra but I feel the washer idea will work. I agree with spookum with the nut thats exactually the set up I use be careful to many holes in the bolt will weaken it and cause major problems.

[Captain]

well i went looking for some castle nuts today. Home Depot, Princess Auto, Rona, Canadian Tire, Royal Distributing, Napa, Fastenal, Torbram electric, some place that sells china atvs and finally CCS. Not 1 store had what i was looking for. Seems that no one carries these. CCS sold me some grade 8 bolts with a fine thread on them and these nuts that he claims will not loosen off. They are kind of oval looking at the ends and he said that they basically destroys the thread behind it so it wont loosen off on its own. I bought 2 extras incase they fail. I'll try to get them on tomorrow and report back.

[Captain]

tried the new speacial nut on the left side first because that was the side that was giving me the most grief. No such luck.the wife says its time to get rid of this sac of doo doo! between the brake problem and not being able to switch gears without grinding i dont know where to start. when i went to look at the machine it ran great. no steering problems with the brakes and it switched gears without grinding. i know its not possible to make it work for a hour to sell so what gives? the brakes would be my first concern. the right side is set up the exact same way but gives me no problems. HELP ME!!!!!!!!

[wildbill335]

My guess is the origional nut did it job correctly but do to vibration and use you had some slop it got stuck when you went to pull back to break it brok lose and striped the bolt same thing happened to me. I would start by replacing the bolt if possbile I have not looked into it to see if it is even possible yet. My gears grinded also untill i adjusted the idel and cleaned my 2ndary clutch

[spookum]

tried the new speacial nut on the left side first because that was the side that was giving me the most grief. No such luck.the wife says its time to get rid of this sac of doo doo! between the brake problem and not being able to switch gears without grinding i dont know where to start. when i went to look at the machine it ran great. no steering problems with the brakes and it switched gears without grinding. i know its not possible to make it work for a hour to sell so what gives? the brakes would be my first concern. the right side is set up the exact same way but gives me no problems. HELP ME!!!!!!!!

Keep your chin up. The grinding will stop once you get the idle down on the engine (maybe a stickey throttle cable) With the engine off, take the air cleaner off and find your throttle linkage. push it so it goes "shut" Twist on the throttle grip three or four times, and see if it goes shut. If it goes shut, with the engine running, find the adjustment screw and adjust it an 1/8 turn and then run it. If the engine bogs when you throttle up, then that means you adjusted too low. Most argo, when sitting idle in nutral for a while allow the CVT to kick in. IT only grinds when you change gears right?

[Captain]

Long and behold I think i fixed the brake problem. I did replace the bolt about 3 times all with grade 8 bolts. I kept bending them trying to get this thing to turn. So I sat in it this morning having a coffee looking closely at both sides. The right side has a really thick washer on it. that was the only difference between the two sides. The washers i was using were getting bent over the nut just a tiny bit and that was causing the nut to back off every time the brake lever went back in. Seems to be working fine now that i put a thicker washer in place of the thinner one.

I did replace the throttle cable yesterday and put on a thumb throttle. It returns nicely and i feel I have the cable adjusted properly. But heres where I'm not so sure on the set up of the carb. After I push the choke back in to turn it off it idles fine. I go to give it a shot of gas and most of the time it bogs down and dies. I end up doing this a number of times until I keep it going then it runs fine but then the idle is a bit too high. This is when I get the grinding. I end up turning the machine off to switch gears at this point. I looked at the manual for the set up on the carb. Its a walbro that has a fuel pump mounted on the firewall. The manual calls for the main adjustment screw to be 1-1/2 out from seat. I then turned the Screw in to see where it was set at. 4 turns later and it was seated. Runs like crap. Put it back to the 4 turns out. I can only find the idle srew on the top of the carb and I'm guessing the screw below with the spring is the main? Any ideas??

[spookum]

I did replace the throttle cable yesterday and put on a thumb throttle. It returns nicely and i feel I have the cable adjusted properly. But heres where I'm not so sure on the set up of the carb. After I push the choke back in to turn it off it idles fine. I go to give it a shot of gas and most of the time it bogs down and dies. I end up doing this a number of times until I keep it going then it runs fine but then the idle is a bit too high. This is when I get the grinding. I end up turning the machine off to switch gears at this point. I looked at the manual for the set up on the carb. Its a walbro that has a fuel pump mounted on the firewall. The manual calls for the main adjustment screw to be 1-1/2 out from seat. I then turned the Screw in to see where it was set at. 4 turns later and it was seated. Runs like crap. Put it back to the 4 turns out. I can only find the idle srew on the top of the carb and I'm guessing the screw below with the spring is the main? Any ideas??

Way good on the breaks, did you use a cotter key? or double jam nuts? Ill grab a thicker washer, that is a good idea. You should take the above quote and put it under a new thead under engines. State what year and what HP it is. Put the thread under engines. Your good to go.