Who owns the Attex Molds

[George]

Andy, I had a long talk with Matt O. last winter about doing what it is you want to do.

He figured anywhere from 60 to 80 thousand dollars to do a production run of close to 100 complete bodies. Making any fewer would not be much cheaper as you have to buy the HDPE by the ton.

He also said that you'd probably get about a dozen bad bodies before you "got it right."

He figured a mold maker could make new molds for about $15-$20 thousand. The nature of the forming process and the molds are such that they can only be used for a handful of production runs before they begin to fall apart.

He also told me that HDPE shrinks upon cooling. If you use an existing body as a mold, you actually have to cut into quarters so that the mold will be slightly larger (by inches) than the original dimensions.

I'd buy one if you have more luck than I did.

[Amphiman1]

Attex bodies

Any thoughts to high impact fiberglass ones?

[AndyL]

I thought of fiberglass since it is a lot easier and cheaper, but it weighs a lot more. Opinions on fiberglass?

George, I talked with Matt last Monday. You probably know more about it than me, so I will take your advice on it. HDPE has an appromate shrink rate of 3-3.5%, so a 56" wide body like a max has to be about 2" wider.
Asfar as colors though, you can buy precut sheets In standard colors that are ready to go. You can buy them individually instead of the ton. And of course, black is the cheapest. The biggest expense is the labor cost of thermo forming and some cost of making molds. I'll see what connections I have as a friend of my family was the owner of Jayco travel trailers, so she could point me in the right direction. But those of us who are handy carpenters and metal workers can make this happen. I know a few people who could assist with that too. This is definitely a long term project though.

[AndyL]

Any thoughts to high impact fiberglass ones?

This has actually been on my mind since you mentioned it amphiman. how durable is the fiberglass compared to HDPE or even ABS? I would imagine it to be durable, but probably nowhere near the same strength. I mean, we have crazy attex people on here jumping them (i would join in too once i get one), so do you think it would hold up to all the beating? what about a skid plate made of fiberglass if it is that durable? i'm just brainstorming a bit here lol.

[lewis]

skid plate

Hydo Mike has a thread showing how to do a skid plate. There is another approach to this by finding a donor bottom. Now this will not be a easy task but it can be done. The ABS responds pretty good when heat is applied. My plan is to heat and cap the bottom of my tub with a destroyed tub. The lower bottom of the tub is in pretty good shape.

doner tub.JPG

It is in its initial stages right now.

[AndyL]

Hydo Mike has a thread showing how to do a skid plate. There is another approach to this by finding a donor bottom. Now this will not be a easy task but it can be done. The ABS responds pretty good when heat is applied. My plan is to heat and cap the bottom of my tub with a destroyed tub. The lower bottom of the tub is in pretty good shape.

[ATTACH]3429[/ATTACH]

It is in its initial stages right now.

I saw that post on how to make one, and it looked very helpful. i was planning on finding a lower tub and make something to fit on the outside of that and have it wrapped around all four sides and corners for extra protection.
cool pic btw

[femmpaws]

I thought of fiberglass since it is a lot easier and cheaper, but it weighs a lot more. Opinions on fiberglass?

George, I talked with Matt last Monday. You probably know more about it than me, so I will take your advice on it. HDPE has an appromate shrink rate of 3-3.5%, so a 56" wide body like a max has to be about 2" wider.
Asfar as colors though, you can buy precut sheets In standard colors that are ready to go. You can buy them individually instead of the ton. And of course, black is the cheapest. The biggest expense is the labor cost of thermo forming and some cost of making molds. I'll see what connections I have as a friend of my family was the owner of Jayco travel trailers, so she could point me in the right direction. But those of us who are handy carpenters and metal workers can make this happen. I know a few people who could assist with that too. This is definitely a long term project though.

Okay I'm going to step in here, amphiman1 and I have talked about making fiberglass ATV hulls for a number of years. I have worked around Vac-formed parts before and the main reason to do that is cycle time. PVC and HDPE are not very strong. What they are is FLEXABLE All your ATVs have a frame that every thing bolts to and that's what helps it keep it's shape all the hull does is keep the mud and water out.

As for fiberglass being heavy yes it can be... I'm building a two place light aircraft that is fiberglass that has an empty weight of under 650 lbs.... Find me a a plane that can beat that. Even the Vans RV-12 hits the scales more them we do and we are in the same class of light sport aircraft.

All the older ATVs that had a fiberglass body were made up of "CHOP" or mat and it was always resin rich, it's not strong but it's FAST, oh I forgot to also tell you it's heavy for it's stiffness. They also didn't put any cloth, roving, or DB in it to tie the mess together. If I do start building Fiberglass ATV bodies I will be using what I have learned about the stuff over 15 years of building BIG fiberglass boats and aircraft parts.

The reason all your ABS and HDPE bodies have all the ridges and molded in areas is to add stiffness to something that is like a wet noddle. They both have their place and that is why they are used. But to make a small run of bodies it's not worth tooling up to use them. Fiberglass is. It's also a lot easier to change the body color as well... You just change the gelcoat.

Paws

[AndyL]

Paws,
Thanks for your input! What do you think the cost and weight comparison would be of an upper/lower tub in fiberglass vs. HDPE? I would just think the fiberglass would have a tendancy to crack if run into a rock while climbing or hitting the ground when jumping. If not, then the answer is simple...the bodies should be made of fiberglass as of now.

Okay I'm going to step in here, amphiman1 and I have talked about making fiberglass ATV hulls for a number of years. I have worked around Vac-formed parts before and the main reason to do that is cycle time. PVC and HDPE are not very strong. What they are is FLEXABLE All your ATVs have a frame that every thing bolts to and that's what helps it keep it's shape all the hull does is keep the mud and water out.

As for fiberglass being heavy yes it can be... I'm building a two place light aircraft that is fiberglass that has an empty weight of under 650 lbs.... Find me a a plane that can beat that. Even the Vans RV-12 hits the scales more them we do and we are in the same class of light sport aircraft.

All the older ATVs that had a fiberglass body were made up of "CHOP" or mat and it was always resin rich, it's not strong but it's FAST, oh I forgot to also tell you it's heavy for it's stiffness. They also didn't put any cloth, roving, or DB in it to tie the mess together. If I do start building Fiberglass ATV bodies I will be using what I have learned about the stuff over 15 years of building BIG fiberglass boats and aircraft parts.

The reason all your ABS and HDPE bodies have all the ridges and molded in areas is to add stiffness to something that is like a wet noddle. They both have their place and that is why they are used. But to make a small run of bodies it's not worth tooling up to use them. Fiberglass is. It's also a lot easier to change the body color as well... You just change the gelcoat.

Paws

[Bw6]

Vacuum Infusion Process

The following is for "information only", and not to start a debate as to which is the best method to construct a "fiberglass" AATV body. The Hoot ETV is constructed using the "Vacuum Infusion" method vs. "Vacuum Bagging" If interested Google both to see the pro's/con's

During the initial construction phase, infused sections "specimens" were sent away for testing, the tensile was in the 50,000 psi range, equal to "non-alloy" steel. The weight of all the infused parts of the Hoot weighed a little over 100 lbs. The material/labor to fabricate the parts is in the $1,000 range. Care must be taken as to the material selection/resin/ and orientation of the materials, but the results speak for themselves.

The Hoot doesn't use a steel frame, because the whole body has same strength as steel, thus saving weight and cost. The finished Hoot weighs a bit over 600 lbs. Ok, can you put a hole in the body, of course, you can put a hole in anything, even HDPE, if you hit something hard and sharp enough.

I have personally rolled it (me with it) down a rock filled slope, luckily I was not hurt, nor was the Hoot, except for the handlebar mount (aluminum) which was broken. You could see a few scratches where it hit the rocks, but nothing was broken or bent.

Check out this YouTube link to see some parts being infused

[jeffery9076]

interesting

who kno?s

[evil8x8]

This site is full of very intelligent people. Why can't we make our own vacuum form machine? Maybe use some leaf blowers and some auto body heat lamps.

[AndyL]

This site is full of very intelligent people. Why can't we make our own vacuum form machine? Maybe use some leaf blowers and some auto body heat lamps.
YouTube - Weekend Project: Make a Vacuum Former

evil, i'm a step ahead of you lol. i started building a large one (not quite wide enough for an attex though) about a year and a half ago...never finished it. plus the attex needs to have a different method. the problem i have is finding something that can vacuum fast enough. i thought about getting a big tank like a large air compressor and hook a vacuum pump up to the tank. then hook the tank up to the vacuum table, and suck it up very quickly! that could be done.

but then i need to figure out how to heat such a large piece of plastic...i went to the junkyard and got LOTS of coils from trashed ovens, but then where will all the power come from? maybe lots of heatguns would be better?!? idk. probably people like matt o would laugh at me for all this, which is perfectly understandable lol. but the first thing is to get a reverse mold made...whether it will be constructed for vacuum forming or glassing...

[jpswift1]

This might be overkill, but I just wanted to throw the idea out there.

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[Model Citizen]

Woman's Intuition

My intuition is that whoever has The Attex mold is one sneaky you know what that is waiting to name their price someday. I think the AATV community should let them keep it.

It's like baseball cards that are only worth what someone is willing to pay big $$$$ for. Otherwise, they are worth really nothing, but maybe a good memory.

My opinion is, keep restoring these beautiful machines wherever you find them. Classic cars are what they are, because of when they were produced. If the automakers tried (& some are trying) to start reproducing a few classics the way they were, it would still never be the same as the original brought back to glory thru restoration.

Bridget

[AndyL]

Well said Bridget! The sneaky person who owns the molds spent a lot more for those then they would to patent and trademark the name though. Unless they just wanted them for collectors pieces.
Although attex would not be the same it was, it would give other brands a run for their money today! The attex can still claim it's fame! Plus it wouldn't be the exact same as older machines, so the older ones will never be devalued by any means. I don't know, it's a tough call. They're wonderful machines, and with a few upgrades it could definitely stir up and expand the AATV market. That's what we need to get ourslves out there and bring back this awesome sport