Which was faster: a 440 thunderchief or 500 superchief?

[Dan Grover]

Alway been curious which one was faster. I have no experience at all with a 440 thunderchief. I've owned both a 400 chief and a superchief.

I am curious in a drag race which would win? Do the twin carbs out run the bigger cc's? Of course I am talking about factory stock machines.

Please chime in.

[jpswift1]

If the 440 Thunderchief had a JLO 5 port 440 with the dual carbs (aka Cuyuna 6 bolt head 440) it would take the stock Superchief, but since the 440 Thunderchiefs didn't come with the 5 port 440, the 500 Superchief is the winner.

[Don]

"If the 440 Thunderchief had a JLO 5 port 440 with the dual carbs (aka Cuyuna 6 bolt head 440) it would take the stock Superchief"

Are we sure of this, JP?

[jpswift1]

"If the 440 Thunderchief had a JLO 5 port 440 with the dual carbs (aka Cuyuna 6 bolt head 440) it would take the stock Superchief"

Are we sure of this, JP?

Don, I think it might not have been a completely accurate test because the THunderchief has some work done to it, but when I ran my stock Superchief against my Thunderchief with the 440 Cuyuna (5 port, 6 bolt head), the Thunderchief was a hair ahead of it in the straight line. My Cuyuna is slightly bored out with some port work done, has a bigger 36mm Mikuni carb and the Superchief was completely stock.

And here's a short clip of the races from Ashtabula a couple years back. The two machines out of the gate the quickest and in the lead into the first turn were Hydromike and me, both powered by 440 Cuyunas.

[Dan Grover]

I am not familiar with "Cuyuna"? I thought it was a Rockwell JLO motor. I thought there was a 6 bolt head model but the six bolt head motor was a 399cc? Wasn't that model called a 400 chief R?

"If the 440 Thunderchief had a JLO 5 port 440 with the dual carbs (aka Cuyuna 6 bolt head 440) it would take the stock Superchief"

Are we sure of this, JP?

[jpswift1]

I am not familiar with "Cuyuna"? I thought it was a Rockwell JLO motor. I thought there was a 6 bolt head model but the six bolt head motor was a 399cc? Wasn't that model called a 400 chief R?

Cuyuna bought out JLO/Rockwell, so it was esentially the same engine. The ST/400R (super, super rare machine) did indeed have a 6 bolt head 400cc engine, but I've never actually seen one in person.

[Bill Gerber]

Hi Dan
I am on the fence with that question.. The 440 twin carb machine that i remember was a temperamental beast.. At least the one i drove was. Somedays it was a screamer. mostly ran good. and sometimes was a pain in the ***. The 440 Thunder chief was cool because it came with all the head temp and tach gages. I would probably say the superchief would probably win, most of the time.
A JLO twin with 6 bolt heads was never put in a production machine, That i am aware off.
And the ST/400/R was actually supposed to be a 400 CCW engine. I really don't think there were many R machines sold. and the ones that were, could have had anything in them. Because you would have to special order them. And roll bars just were not, trail ride friendly around here.. They didn't get along well with tree's.. I don't think they were a stocked unit.. and people just did not spend that kind of money and take it to the track and beat it to death.
In reality the literature came out before the machines and sometimes production was not exactly as what was planned.
Many exceptions were made. You will find that many 400 chiefs were released with 440 engines with a single carb because of availability. And those ran real good. But unless you tried to put rings in it, you could have had one and never known it.. Jetting a twin carb, set up is a pain!!!!

Note of interest: The Factory R and D even tried a Wankle engine. No power, but smooth (I got to drive it for a week). There was a prototype machine made with a jet ski motor under the regular motor. supposedly worked well. And was sold. I tried a prototype clear plastic body, It didn't make it through the weekend. Dad said "Put it through the paces" Oh Yeah, Wrong thing to say, Shattered the bottom and had to pick the machine up with a trailer as the top was smoking from being held up by the spinning tires.. I wish i had pics. There was also a 493 Hirth in production machines, somewhere around that point in time. But very few. And i think this was done mainly so that we could race a Hirth engine in stock classes. Pretty tricky Huh??

[jpswift1]

Very cool information, Mr. Gerber! I could tell you about quite a few Attexes that I've come across that had me scratching my head when I saw the drivelines that didn't match the markings/model decals on the body.

[6X6]

Very cool. Glad I got on here today. A clear plastic bottom would be interesting, for sure....

[Bill Gerber]

We were really testing a type of plastic, and the test one happened to come in clear. At least thats what i thought..
It was brittle, little bumps lost chunks. But that kinda stuff don't happen every day. Its the kinda stuff you remember forever.
But it was cool when it was clean, about 3 min. HaHa
There was a blue poly body made. a top and a bottom (just one). That would have been a cool looking machine..
It was never assembled.. Yet !! Lol

[Don]

Thanks for posting all the Attex history, Bill. It's interesting to hear about the earlier models (and non-models). I had a couple of the first gen 400R machines and both of them came with the CCW, but I have a brochure from Attex, probably from the early 70s, that lists a "400R" with a borg/warner transmission and a JLO 400 5-port. Never made production that you know of? There's a few other machines in Attex literature that I've never seen; what about the Brave Buck and Warrior Wolf? I know most people probably never heard of the Frontiersman, but I think I remember seeing one of those once. Here's a scan of the brochure that Mike's got on the site- http://www.6x6world.com/images/attex...6-Lineup-2.jpg

[George]

There was a blue poly body made. a top and a bottom (just one). That would have been a cool looking machine..
It was never assembled.. Yet !! Lol

I KNEW IT!!!!

They all laughed at me at the Ledges event a few years ago when I mentioned having heard this rumor.

Do you have it? Can you post a picture?

[thebuggyman1]

"There was a blue poly body made. a top and a bottom (just one).

What barn is it stored in......and what time of night do I need to show up to liberate it

[amphibious drew]

"There was a blue poly body made. a top and a bottom (just one).

What barn is it stored in......and what time of night do I need to show up to liberate it

If that info gets disclosed, I am sure I have a head start to the location. Your going to have to do some crazy driving to beat me to it.

[Bill Gerber]

This body was in one of the upper Floors at attex when I first saw it
Just collecting dust. And when we moved attex to East Palistine OH,
I dont remember seeing it. The next time I saw the bottom, The bottom
tube was cut out and covering my dads log spliter. I did find the top years
later, and still have it. It was formed on the original ABS mold with the high
seat contor and is kinda thin in that area. That mold was modified in that area
By grinding that area down and of corse the molded stripes were added before poly
Went into production. So the blue top has no molded strips and the high seat riser.
It also still has that steel ring around the gas tank fill hole.
It's not perfect but not scrap. I think it would look awesome with a yellow bottom.
I will dig it out someday and post a pic. It is kind of a odd ball. And has some scratches On it.
It's a dark royal blue.. The bottom. Well that's just a shame. I would even try to put it back togather ,
But the top part of the bottom is gone.
Sorry if this post is messed up, but I am in Wythville Virginia in a motel and trying to do it from my I phone
And I can't realy even see the dam text after I type it. It's too Small and I don't see as well as I used to.

Don
As to the models you mentioned. I don't remember seeing them either..
And I think there's a type error on the 440. I think that was supposed
Be 438 not 428 cc. And 400-2 was a four bolt head. The 5 port thing on a dash 2, well I don't understand. It was probably supposed to say 400-7. I don't remember ever seeing that spec sheet, before.
Well enough from this phone!! I'll post later