Finally talked her into letting me get one....questions???

[dzg]

Ok, some may remeber me from about a yr or so ago when i was posting on this site, money issues due to vehicles came about so the getting a AATV went on the back burner with the gas turned off....BUT....

This year with our tax returns my wife gave me the ok to get one....

Im planning on having 2500-3000 to spend, i have found a quite a few nice (older, which dont bother me) machines around here in that price range....

But i do have some questions....

Will an Argo or Max (II or IV) fit in the back of a fullsize pickup with an 8ft bed?

I was reading that something is different with the old Argo transmissions, what exactly is different about them? I dont wanna go so old where im stuck with a 2 stroke, but i dont wanna dish out themoney for something super new.

Are tracks worth it? I like the idea of them, BUT, they seem to up the price of a used machine way up.

I prefer an argo, but i like the max's to, does one have any distinct advatages over the other?

thanks guys.

[racerone3]

In the price range you mentioned, you can pick up a pretty nice Max if you are patient and wait for the right one. For that same price range, any Argo you find is probably going to be a money pit.

Max will fit in the bed of the truck, I won't comment on the Argo though as I have never personally done it.

[roblynn]

hello dzg i cant give you some of the advice that some of these older members can on some of these issues , i just wanted to give you my two cents . you said you wanted to avoid a two stroke motor ? two strokes have got a vary bad wrap over the years for being unreliable power plants that produce alot of power 'when they run' . im here to say thats all false info . they can smoke a little if there a little worn in ,tuned wrong , or oil fuel mix is off. the next up side is lots and lots of power per displacment. the best part about a two stroke is there very cheap and ez to work on in comparison to its four stroke brothers and sisters.
a two stroke motor is as basic as a motor can get if you plan to do your own work. the big place ppl make a mistake is to get the biggest badest two stroke they can find with twin carbs and liquid cooled with crazy gizmos all over, then they go beat the crap out of them with no upkeep.when it comes to all weather riding in a bumpy machine there is nothing better than a air cooled single carb two stroke that makes about twice the h.p. of a four stoke thats the same displacment.

long story short if you can mix your oil and fuel correctly ,tune a carb correctly , keep a good air filter on your motor [ like a k&n or uni filter. you will and can get twice the h.p. , half the four stroke life beffor overhual , and a top end overhual for the $ 100 to 150 range . how many four strokes can do that?

the only four strokes that can even get close to two stroke power are the new gen high rev four strokes. i built one four or five years ago it was in a honda 450r race quad. vary impressive little motor made gobs of h.p. for a four stroke but it was allso vary complex and vary costly to maintain.
besides iv never even heard of any body trying to drop one into a aphib everybody has lawnmower type setups. and by the way be vary carefull when getting one, the koler v twins pop head gaskets , build case pressure , worp heads . not a good motor at alljust google the koler curage and koler comand you will find alot of guys with a ton of top end motor problems .
plus they are expencive to rebuild if its even worth rebuilding after it comes apart but i see and here alot of ppl in here wanting to" upgrade" to one for more h.p. no motor is bullet proof 'none' so i say give me the lowest cost to rebuild with the highest output.that is unless your pocket book is bottomless and you can write all this off with uncle sam, then just skip all this and get a modle with a diesle. good luck if there is ever anything i can help you with just hit me up.

[dzg]

No, the biggest reason i dont want a 2 stroke is they are "all or nothing", i prefer a 4 stroke just for the low end torque, i have wrenched on lawn mowers since i was about 14 yrs old, so a Briggs Vanguard is nothing new to me

I also dont like the smokieness, the noise, and the mixing oil and fuel...

Ive had my eye on this....

1984 Argo 6X6 with Tracks

Its been for sale for a long time, (like since october or so), so hopefully its still there in another 2 months or so.....im pretty sure 3 cash would get it seeing as how its been sitting....

[roblynn]

ya i saw thay one the other day ! nice looking old argo . i went with a maxii for a resto project i plan to start in the spring "im a contractor" limited funds in the winter so the max has to sit for now. i bet you can get that guy down to atleast 3 grand because of the age . id hit him at 2500 cash in hand and go from there .make sure your waving the bills in his face when ya do it ;]

[dzg]

How much more do the Max IVs go for compared to Max II's?

[guyfox]

I bought an 89 6x6 argo with tracks and I paid $2200.00 for it here in Newfoundland, Canada. Been running it for over a year as a second machine nad have not had any problems with it. Just usual maintence.

And yes, it will fit in the back of a full size truck. You may need to build a block system for the wheel wells but that is not a problem. There is a pic on here as an example if you want to search for it.

[racerone3]

How much more do the Max IVs go for compared to Max II's?

pretty similar in price, I would geuss a IV brings a little more than an II, but not much in comparable condition.

[roblynn]

iv been looking at them for some years in the ne OHIO aria . iv heard ppl around here want more for what they got wich seems true when i look any other place 'except ebay' most seem high there too for year and shape in my opinion unless the owener isent willing to ship then ya see some good deals. but any how it seems where im from you should expect to pay $2500 and up for a decent maxii and $4500 and up for a max iv that wont need to much work. thats why im a basket case guy on these , i cant justify thousands of dollers for out dated and basic tec that im going to beat im the creek bed i still to this day dont know how or why these manufacturs put such a high sticker on a product thats not to much more advanced than a go cart with more chains and a plastic tub

[amphibious drew]

pretty similar in price, I would geuss a IV brings a little more than an II, but not much in comparable condition.

I see less of what I consider to be "good deals" on Max IV's vs the Max II's, but if you are patient and resourceful, you could get a good deal on one.

[roblynn]

just so everybody knows i do now and have in the past owened 6x6 atv's im in no way shape or form cutting down 6x6 or 8x8 anpibs , but i do firmly stand by my comment that this technology is dated and could vary much so use updating especially considering the price point of new sales ! what im getting at is the doller vs tec . yes the t20 is an awsome unit ! if its not broken dont fix it i love the trans and its the best part of any 6x6 or 8x8 unit that has one in my opinion. who out there would not want a 6x6 or 8x8 with articulating suspension? not only would the ride be more comfortable but the unit would allso be more capable... at a 12 grand price point this is something you should expect not want and thats just for a small unit. how about deeper tubs so we could do more up grades? jet perpulsion for water ? that tec has been around for 40 years in anphibs but it will take from the bottom line at the manufacture so its out . all im saying is if they are going to ask a premium price they need to deliver an advanced product not a warmed over 30 or 40 year design. im a contractor and if i try to use products from 30 years ago i would have no customers you have to keep pace with the times and justify your prices thats all im saying so sorry to anybody that tolk my comments of amphibs as a direct blow to there owen.

[mynertz]

Ive been looking for a Max Iv for a little over a year, And I just picked one up yesterday. It is a 1991 Max IV with a 440 Kawasaki I have about 3200.00 into mine, it also came with a set of half tracks. I'm not sure on how to post a pic on the forums but it is the pic next to my name. I wasnt wanting to spend that kind of money at this time of the year but I thought I got a pretty good deal.

[jpswift1]

i cant justify thousands of dollers for out dated and basic tec that im going to beat im the creek bed i still to this day dont know how or why these manufacturs put such a high sticker on a product thats not to much more advanced than a go cart with more chains and a plastic tub

First off, your comment about AATVs being a product that isn't much more advanced than a go cart with a plastic tub missed the mark. There were a couple other members that were on the site for a very brief time that continuously pitched similar comments and some were even bashing AATVs. All the other members weren't very receptive to them and the negativity of their comments so they were simply taken with a grain of salt and everyone else just moved about their business and discussed these great machines in more of a constructive manor. Yes, they are simple compared to some other things out there, but they work GREAT (better than any 4 wheeler in the mud), they're cheap and easy to fix (price a Yamaha or Honda 4 wheeler rebuild against an Attex or Max), they are what started the ATV market, and we all like them so that's pretty much the end of the story on that. Now, let me clear things up for you about the price. Do you think they produce thousands and thousands of AATVs every year? No, it's a niche market. I'll break it down for you a bit. Here are just a few things regarding the manufacturing process of these machines. They use large aluminum molds to make the bodies that cost $50,000+, they have parts like axles, throttle cables, wiring harnesses, frames, and other mechanisms that are specifically made for them in somewhat small quantities, not in quantities of 10,000+ at a time. They have to have all the transmission parts specifically machined to their specs, they have to buy engines, clutches, belts, bearings, chain, wheels, tires, etc, etc. When manufacturers have to purchase all these parts in smaller quantities, especially the ones that are model specific to their machines it's not going to be cheap for them. You have to figure in all the overhead of a business that makes AATVs as well.....for example, the utility bills that the factory has to pay. Every year prices go up. You have to keep in mind ALL of the costs these companies incur; the external factors that drive these costs, the logistics, labor, taxes/fees, costs of plant, property, and equipment......these all are figured into the books and they price the vehicles accordingly. You have to keep in mind that AATV manufacturers are not huge companies like Ford or GM so their profit margins producing significantly fewer units will be smaller than a large company so drastic changes to the product line aren't always cost feasible. I've been in the business world and I teach how businesses work. I'll let some folks that run small business like Whipper and Bridget of Apache Gear chime in and explain this as well. Many people ask the same thing, "why do they charge so much for these basic machines?" but they don't think about everything I described.

[trebmaster]

First off, your comment about AATVs being a product that isn't much more advanced than a go cart with a plastic tub missed the mark. There were a couple other members that were on the site for a very brief time that continuously pitched similar comments and some were even bashing AATVs. All the other members weren't very receptive to them and the negativity of their comments so they were simply taken with a grain of salt and everyone else just moved about their business and discussed these great machines in more of a constructive manor. Yes, they are simple compared to some other things out there, but they work GREAT (better than any 4 wheeler in the mud), they're cheap and easy to fix (price a Yamaha or Honda 4 wheeler rebuild against an Attex or Max), they are what started the ATV market, and we all like them so that's pretty much the end of the story on that. Now, let me clear things up for you about the price. Do you think they produce thousands and thousands of AATVs every year? No, it's a niche market. I'll break it down for you a bit. Here are just a few things regarding the manufacturing process of these machines. They use large aluminum molds to make the bodies that cost $50,000+, they have parts like axles, throttle cables, wiring harnesses, frames, and other mechanisms that are specifically made for them in somewhat small quantities, not in quantities of 10,000+ at a time. They have to have all the transmission parts specifically machined to their specs, they have to buy engines, clutches, belts, bearings, chain, wheels, tires, etc, etc. When manufacturers have to purchase all these parts in smaller quantities, especially the ones that are model specific to their machines it's not going to be cheap for them. You have to figure in all the overhead of a business that makes AATVs as well.....for example, the utility bills that the factory has to pay. Every year prices go up. You have to keep in mind ALL of the costs these companies incur; the external factors that drive these costs, the logistics, labor, taxes/fees, costs of plant, property, and equipment......these all are figured into the books and they price the vehicles accordingly. You have to keep in mind that AATV manufacturers are not huge companies like Ford or GM so their profit margins producing significantly fewer units will be smaller than a large company so drastic changes to the product line aren't always cost feasible. I've been in the business world and I teach how businesses work. I'll let some folks that run small business like Whipper and Bridget of Apache Gear chime in and explain this as well. Many people ask the same thing, "why do they charge so much for these basic machines?" but they don't think about everything I described.

well said JP

[roblynn]

ok , i guess most ppl on here are very defencive about there aatvs , let me start with this i come from a successful bisiness family . my family owened and operated what was the countrys largest union machine shop for many years , they did tool and die work for the big three for many years building things like "the large aluminum mold' you spoke of, thats called a die and yes there very expencive to have built . but they can allso be reworked and have a long life as long as treated correctly.

i was a union boilermaker my self for about 17 years building everything from power plants ,chemical refinerys,ships , underground tunnel bores,heavy equipment and so on.
afew projects i,ve worked on are in the guinness book of records for size ,speed or being the first of its kind.
Next i owen my bissness i work for myself and run my owen bissness ,have workers , have overhead , have equipment. every bissness man dose and i understand all of this inside and out .
iv got a pritty good background in fabrication,machining, and mecanics. a entry level 6x6 paying full on retail for all parts subtract the tub would be under 6 grand all day and i think thats leaving alot of room, RI charges 1200 to 1300 a tub from what iv heard over the years, and there blems are around afew hundred bucks,wich means thats about what they have in one . and i can promiss you RI is not paying full on retail even in there small numbers, i know i dont and never will.
if a company wants my bissness they have to work with me or i go ellswhere.
thats my responsibility to my costomer to give them a good product at the best price possible.
heres my next point allso if they start making some advancment in tec they will allso start to expand there costomer base wich means we all get more for less .
as i said beffor if you dont keep with times you get left behind , a young man with 15 grand in his pocket dosent want to hear about chain drive with zero suspension when he can bie a side by side 4x4 that dose 90mph out of the box with suspension and a highly enjineered chassy for the same cash.some ppl will answere that a 6x6 isent for everybody.but in reality its for allot of ppl thats the whole point of an atv ,to go where ya cant in your car or truck or on your lawn mower the more places it gos and the more fun ya have doing it the better. and lets face it nothing gos more places than anphibs unless you got the batmobile parked at home

i think you guys see what im saying as bashing because im willing to descuss short comings .
all i can say to that is if there is a hole in my roof i fix it and untill more ppl start expecting more from these companys for there monie it will not chainge.some ppl dont like chainge but thats part of reality ,things that dont evolve become part of the past.
and one last time i think anphibs are awsome ! and your right they go places 4 wheelers cant dreem trust me i know, iv got lifted 4x4 quads and i can only get them in and out of about 2/3 of what a anphib will do and iv invested tons and tons of cash just to get them as capable as they are..