Amphibious ATV Jet propulsion systems?

[Mike]

Who is going to school me on these jet pumps for AATVs? After reading up on the Wedge, how many other AATVs had these systems, how powerful are they, what kind of speeds do they allow for, pictures, videos, etc.

I know nothing

[jpswift1]

Well Mike I know that the early fiberglass body Hustlers came with a jet pump option. I have an old Popular Mechanics magazine from 1970 and they tested the Hustler and they stated that it did about 9 mph in the water.

[Mike]

Man, 9mph is not too shabby! Does that article mention any technical specs about them? Are they belt driven? Also, how do you activate them?

[Robio_8x8]

Terra tiger Terra Jet

I have seen the Terra Tiger called Terra Jet Claims it went 10mph on water with a very small jet pump.

I do not know why more AATV's do not have this option anymore it seamed like a really good idea.
I was thinking if you kept the Tracks on you may even get to hydrofoil a bit with enough power. If the tracks were spinning at the same time the jet was going it may reduce the water drag from the tread pattern. I would imagine it would take allot of power to get it to ski up on the tracks but once it did it would take much power to keep it going. Cavitation may be an issue.

[Amphiman1]

jet pumps

they are chain driven in a wedge.
Whipper has his next calling,,, hydrofoil an attex...LOL

[srg121]

dont know much about stock systems

but i do know they wont take solids,clean fresh water only! thats fine for cruising the local pond but not for swamps and contaminated dirty water which is what these machines are made for! i am planning on using a 3" trash pump capable of taking solids,leaves,eggcorns,sludge and whatever else we might dredge up.this one is pretty cheap and i can use the motor for one of my go carts L@@K NEW 6.5 HP 3" WATER\TRASH PUMP W\US NPT THREADS!!! - eBay (item 270206099316 end time Jan-28-08 20:55:00 PST) it will push out 220 gallons of water a minute through a y diverter valve,with 2 outputs one on left and one on right for steering. since they are designed for 6.5 hp i figure i can use tapered output tips to increase pressure and thrust without bogging the 23 horse vangaurd v twin i'm looking at,it also has a flywheel stub for v belt pully to connect pump 23hp Briggs-Stratton Engine ES Vanguard Flywheel Stub - eBay (item 130191239493 end time Feb-17-08 08:28:40 PST)
figuring on doing a tensioner pulley for cluth to engage pump,kinda like a mower on a garden tracktor.dont know what kind of speed ill get but i have gps with mph so ill be able to get accurate water speed to post,i figure at the very least i'll be able to drive halfway into a pond submerging front inputs stop and engage pump and put on one hell of a show!!! flywheel stub on v twin would be good for 2nd alternater or small hydrolic pump for power angle plow too. are there any differences in the vangaurds in aatv's and this flywheel stub model??? gettin 12"half tracks and thinking about taking off front chains and strapping snowboards to the front tires to try that hydro foil thing...lol

[Robio_8x8]

Jet Ski jet pumps actually take allot of abuse

There is a grill on the bottom of a jet ski to block any large objects and as far a sand grit mud sludge it will just pass through. If it clogs and does not go through it just robs you of power until you clear the intake. Sometimes this just means stopping letting the stuff fall off and take off. Other times you may need a squeegee to remove objects from intake grill before you regain full power.

If you get a stainless steel prop it will most likely last forever. The jet skies on our lake goes through all kinds of crud, small gravel, sand, weeds, zebra muscles, you name it. The bonus you will have with an AATV when tapping off of the engine is it doesn’t use the lake water as coolant so you do not have to worry about that water intake being clogged and having the engine over heat. When the grill over the jet pump gets clogged you loose power until you clear it .There is no long term damage.
If you are worried about damaging your impeller or using an aluminum impeller use a clutch on the drive mechanism. (Just use a stainless steel impeller you will thank me latter).

You also do not have to engage the jet pump unless you find it necessary to increase speed .People run those jet skies things up on sand coral all the time without years of trouble. You can even run a jet ski dry if it wasn’t for the cooling system style.

Using a water pump like the links above show would be inefficient and the water pump I use to draw from the lake (white is a jet style pump) requires filers upon filters to prevent acrylic impellers from wearing out

[srg121]

yeah don't know much about pumps but just figured with the cost of the 6.5hp motor I'm only spending about $30 bucks for the pump and would be a good place to start experimenting.i can run it with its own motor and temporary input/output hoses to run some tests without cutting holes in body and at very least i have a pump to use around the house.and i didnt figure id be able to ski off the back just want to go faster than everyone else,maybe even break that 10 mph barrier...lol

[Robio_8x8]

Let me know if you try but...

yeah don't know much about pumps but just figured with the cost of the 6.5hp motor I'm only spending about $30 bucks for the pump and would be a good place to start experimenting.i can run it with its own motor and temporary input/output hoses to run some tests without cutting holes in body and at very least i have a pump to use around the house.and i didnt figure id be able to ski off the back just want to go faster than everyone else,maybe even break that 10 mph barrier...lol

It is not just the propulsion it is drag. It takes allot of force to get an AATV to go over 5mph in water .You may be able to pick up jet ski parts super cheap after a storm in the tropics or off a guy who blew the motor on one .The only thing I have to fix on a jet skies jet drive in the $2-$6 bearings and Impellers. The only major damage was one with a cracked housing and that was a combination of running with really worn bearings and a collision impact with rock at high speed. The rock won
The Impellers are not cheap,like a boat prop in cost.

if you buy one check the condition of the impeller

http://www.impact-enterprises.com/photo/0216072a.jpg

Do not worry about the junk in the very back of pump in picture that just helps it steer.
You may be able to still steer using the aatv steering

[srg121]

hey how big are jet ski pumps and where do they intake,would the pump need to be centerd in bottom rear of tub becouse i have zero room there.plenty of room up high on right of motor right next to flywheel stub though. plumbing for input/output still tight.dont want to cut bottom of tub.want to run intake hose from front under axles on outside,displacing 220 gallons away from front of vehicle also providing a suction effect,thinking about running output through 2"receiver hitch and using tires to steer since i can run both pump and tires independently or at same time.ill still be spinning tires to get to 4-5 mph,then engaging pump should give me a boost,maybe only to 7 or 8 mph but every little bit helps when your going that slow.and again dont want to cut holes in lower tub,was going to cut hole to reccess 2" receiver hitch anyway leaving just enough on outside for pin so doesnt get hung up coming off trees and other obsticles,making a sealed bucket wont be hard but if i run output through reciever hitch wodnt need to be sealed as water entering hitch will hit one way check valve on output before pump. if check valve failes water just goes into pump and back out inputs if pump is off.

[Silverbullet75]

Richard's Relics has one for the Hustler... check it out!
Welcome to Richard's Relics Parts for ATV's

[Robio_8x8]

Back center is best but ..

hey how big are jet ski pumps and where do they intake,would the pump need to be centerd in bottom rear of tub becouse i have zero room there.plenty of room up high on right of motor right next to flywheel stub though. plumbing for input/output still tight.dont want to cut bottom of tub.want to run intake hose from front under axles on outside,displacing 220 gallons away from front of vehicle also providing a suction effect,thinking about running output through 2"receiver hitch and using tires to steer since i can run both pump and tires independently or at same time.ill still be spinning tires to get to 4-5 mph,then engaging pump should give me a boost,maybe only to 7 or 8 mph but every little bit helps when your going that slow.and again dont want to cut holes in lower tub,was going to cut hole to reccess 2" receiver hitch anyway leaving just enough on outside for pin so doesnt get hung up coming off trees and other obsticles,making a sealed bucket wont be hard but if i run output through reciever hitch wodnt need to be sealed as water entering hitch will hit one way check valve on output before pump. if check valve failes water just goes into pump and back out inputs if pump is off.

You can get smaller Jet Ski pumps

If you want to put it off to one side just keep in mine you will loose power (lots of power) if it sucks in any air. This is called cavitations.
Also if it is to one side the vessel may tent to turn a bit but you can off set this with a rudder.

Funny thing with water craft try to go a bit faster and you will use less Fuel. I know this sounds funny but boats have a very inefficient middle speed were it plows. Slower it is ok, faster it is ok but at that plow speed you can use 3 to 4 times the fuel if not more .Some refer this as getting out of the hole. You may only want to go 7-8mph but you would be better going 12-15mph

[srg121]

12- 15 would be great but do u think tub and tires are streamline enough to get "out of the hole". could jet ski pump be belt driven w/ a clutch u think.the stock unit looks nice to,probably expensive and less effective as modern jet ski pump.could jet ski pump be mounted higher w/ extended s shaped output tube maybe? really dont want to move motor or chop frame and cut hole in bottom of tub.also input on bottom rear could be damaged sliding over rocks during land use. what is the gallon per minute rating on jet skis,im sure output pressure probably has more to do with thrust than volume

[srg121]

anyone know of any other small high output/high pressure pumps that could be remotly mounted and driven via clutch

[Robio_8x8]

I will let you know after I try it but ..

12- 15 would be great but do u think tub and tires are streamline enough to get "out of the hole". could jet ski pump be belt driven w/ a clutch u think.the stock unit looks nice to,probably expensive and less effective as modern jet ski pump.could jet ski pump be mounted higher w/ extended s shaped output tube maybe? really dont want to move motor or chop frame and cut hole in bottom of tub.also input on bottom rear could be damaged sliding over rocks during land use. what is the gallon per minute rating on jet skis,im sure output pressure probably has more to do with thrust than volume

The tires are a problem they are a real drag in that water but the tub is very streamline.
What machine are you doing this too?
If the tires assist in the propulsion and a buoyant enough to be 50-40% out of the water they are less of a drag . You can countersink the pump slightly to avoid rock damage ,the pump itself is strong so you may loose the seal between the pump and the tub but a strong grill should avoid any damage . I would think that chain drive would be the way to go and you do not really need a clutch . With a belt you will not need a clutch but you may need many spar belts when you loose power .The gallons per second will give it power and the pressure may increase the speed if the power is sufficient. You will also need to match the power to the impeller size . I do not think it is possible for a non jet ski pump to give you the performance required unless the pump is many times larger . Such a pump may also lack adequate design.

You may look into another alternative. This will be experimental but I hope to achieve good results by this. I was looking into making my own home made tracks out of cutting up old car tires . I was thinking of making the odd segment of track cup water in hops to push the vehicle in water more aggressively. The problems I may face in buoyancy , cup or paddle size and spacing . The top of the wheel need to stay above the water line and the paddle size and spacing . I was going to also add a Jet ski drive and attempt to hydrofoil. This may or may not work but if it were to ski on the tracks who knows why types of water speed could be achieved.

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/ebay-craigslist-more/1900-home-made-tracks-3.html