Springers, how, why and are they worth it?

[mudbug3]

This is the way to go if you wanted an amphib with tracks and suspension.

[kghills]

Problem with that system is you can't just pull the tracks off and run tires for a day of fast pace riding at the dunes. It becomes a dedicated track machine more or less. A springer with easily removable tracks if it would work would be very versatile I would think.

Keith.

[mudbug3]

kghills

If a track suspension system could be designed so that it wouldn't throw the tracks off at high speed, why would Howe and Howe , who designs tracks for extreme off road conditions and at high speed, chose this suspension system for a tracked vehicle instead of a suspension system like the one that Whipper designed?

[kghills]

Dedicated tracked vehicle again Dave. And a fast one. But the amount of power required to turn that type of system is generally much greater that that required to turn a simple wheel and tire whether with or without a suspension. Also I think the cost of any high speed track system would be three times at least what any springer kit would cost and the tub would need to sit on top of it.

Keith

[kghills]

Or of course, part of the reason that amphibs are such a small market is that quads, side by sides etc have suspension and are therefore perceived as smoother, more comfortable, faster and more controllable than a plastic bathtub with wheels and no suspension. The simple action of making a model with suspension may possibly open up a whole new market. No-one will know until a manufacturer bites the bullet.
One thing's for certain, IF a manufacturer DOES do it, and IF it took off it would seriously affect the non suspension providers !!

All very good points.

The Attex baja machines were bone stock all the way down to the balloon tires, the only work done to them was to meet race rules. Balloon tire ride is something that should be experienced, after all they were designed for these machines and work quite well with proper air pressure, I would be willing to bet that 90% of the balloons that? I have seen on machines have been over inflated,that is no bueno, too easy to rip a center or get a punture, the softer the tire, the more it gives, the harder it is to punture. That being said, when you compare them to todays tires, they wore out relatively quick, and puntured more easily than 2 ply tires in todays world, but hey, it was 1968 and they were cutting edge at the time.
As far as if a springer is worth it, for me no- I am a purist and appreciate the old machines for what they are, simple capable machines.
Springers are really cool though!

Joe, your father is a 6x6 legend in my book. I also am amazed he went that distance on balloons with no tire failures. And still I agree. Springers are cool.

everybody must face the fact that a springer is the only way to go on any 6x6 8x8 10x10 or whatever, they wont brake any more than any other type of vehicle that has suspension or not, if you clip a tree or boulder at speeds you will brake or bend or destroy whatever you have , ive seen trucks, quads 4x4 , side x sides at the dunes bottom out flip and roll and just rip apart and thats just the way it goes, you fix, repair and do it again its all fun..who cares how much it cost....ive seen guys buy brand new side x sides for 15 k dollars and put another 15 k in trick suspension and still tear them up, who cares, but they get awesome pics of trashing their rides, i can go on and on but who cares ,just speed that money and tear it up..

WFO, I have never met you but I think I like you or at least the way you think. I think what you said sort of rings true, I think I feel myself reaching for my wallet.

Keith.

[Obsessed]

This is the way to go if you wanted an amphib with tracks and suspension.

Super cool type of suspension but it gets farther and farther from a machine that floats...I think that you really need to stay with a system that uses the big low pressure tires to keep the weight to water displacement in a safe ratio...

tim

[mudbug3]

This is a 670 CC amphibious tracked amphib that also uses a torsion arm suspension with bogie wheels. This machine moves pretty darn good too. No one on the forum yet has thought up a way to keep the tracks on a springer kit like Whipper has designed. I,m sure this is why you don't that style of suspension on an amphib that has tracks.

[Obsessed]

That machine looks awesome Dave! Great video...sounds like it could use a little more motor, but super cool!

tim

[kghills]

That's interesting Dave but looks like a boat with tracks to me. I think Tim is right with the 6x6 getting a lot of floatation from its tires is a big advantage. The tracked boat thing makes the springers look small and a springer makes a standard 6x6 look narrow so your examples are sort of on the large size and would probably need to be to displace enough water to float plus they would always be a dedicated tracked vehicle so you would make a small market even smaller by not allowing the ability to take off the tracks. Now that is assumming a springer would take tracks which is back on track with the question Rock Doctor posted earlier. (I think I just made a funny)

Keith

[brushcutter]

Did you catch the track breakage at 0:15, watch the wad of moss on the top of the rt tract just as the camera guy yells. Just me, but I'm not a big fan of all the ripsaw type suspensions. Don't get me wrong I think they are really cool, but the lurching, bouncy ride that they all seem to give just doesn't qualify as what I would call a "smooth, cushy ride". What I've seen on every one of them resembles what a rodeo bull rider experiences, but just way slower.

I've thought a lot about the springer tracks, and I have some ideas, but first I have a question. Keith, are you really wanting to know if tracks can be run on a springer, if someone figures out how to make it happen are you going to spring your machine? Or, are you just hunting faults with a fantastic feat of frog engineering? I read the other thread and you didn't seem to be a big fan of springers, so, I'm just a little suspicious...

[kghills]

I drove 5 hrs to buy a machine to spring Tuesday night and the deal went cold after I found some issues with it and returned 5 hrs with an empty trailer. Yes, pretty serious. I would like to have a machine purchased in the next few weeks. Am I hunting faults? YES I AM! I would prefer not to run blindly into a project only to discover it was a waste of time, effort and money but WFO's post, honestly made the most sense to me. Right now I envision something like this with a suspension.

or this with Mudd-Ox Vendettas and a suspension:

Anyone have a preference?

I am hoping Marc will let me fit my AquaTorques on the Copperhead at Ashtabula when I pick up the Blackbird and do some testing for me. How bout it Jersey? Ready to turn the Copperhead into a bigfoot.

I would build it WITHOUT the intent of being tracked however if I can get the thing up and running to my satisfaction without tracks I am pretty sure I could sweet talk Tim into fitting it with a set of tracks as long as a trackable tire is on it to see how that might work.

Thanks WFO you rock! Keith.

[jerseybigfoot]

Will try to make the time.

[kghills]

Awesome Marc! A little off topic but when reading through project Copperhead it seemed the consensus was for Big Block power. Finally something I actually have a little experience with.

But what do you use for a clutch?

Keith.

[kghills]

Oops. Sort of lost track of this thread with all the things developing. Here are pictures of Copperhead fitted with AquaTorques.

I thank Marc for taking the time to give them a spin on his springer. Marc said the tires took the light nimble feel away from the springer and did not like them. I suppose that really makes sense. Like the design of a stadium truck compared to a mud truck. I think the springer kit needs to be designed for the intened tire and use. Another thing that happens is the wide design gets even wider, close to 80".

Keith.

[kghills]

Here is a recent springer development. Marc added Adair tracks to the Copperhead and by doing so answering a few questions whether tracks would work on a springer.

Not only did Marc take the leap and fit the Copperhead with tracks but here is a video of him letting it rip.

I plan on seeing more from Marc. He's just that sort of guy. Awesome!

Keith.