New to the forum with a big request, will a max iv or 8x8 best fit my needs?

[trick76cj5]

Thanks in advance for all the help! I have searched, read, researched, and now (being only a little overwhelmed) am asking the question.

I had sold myself on a Max IV . . . but then got to thinking the additional space afforded by an 8X8 would be nice too . . . obviously it would be an Argo though.

I've read about all the differences front engine to rear engine, T20 to open diff and/or admiral.

I grew up with a Tera Tiger and a Max II, i loved the Max II . . . so I'm familiar with the sport from the play side. But, now i need something dual purpose; so here is my deal.

We just bought a house on a little land, 5 acres, all wooded, and built into the side of a hill with a pretty deep creek running through it (60* slopes probably 30-50' high in areas . . . granted, i won't be climbing that) and not too many flat areas on the property. We have a few hundred foot long paved driveway that runs uphill to the house. We live in NE ohio in the "snow belt" (lake effect snow off Lake Erie), which is formidable at times by Ohio standards . . . albeit nothing like those up north see on a regular basis. Using our 28" snow blower takes about an hour to clear the drive, is boring, and when its snowing here i'll have to do it easily a few times a week. We also have a wood burning stove, so i need something to haul firewood out of the woods with. Additionally, all of the typical yard tasks need a way to get done (we have 1/16 acre of grass, so no riding lawn mower either).

But, I also want to be able to take it to places like Wellsville Ohio or my mom's farm to go have fun.

So, i need to:
- Plow some snow
- Haul wood and stuff (will get a trailer to actually load the wood on)
- Do yard, house, property work
- Manage some pretty good inclines on really soft/slick surfaces
- I don't plan to "cut trails" through our woods, i'm hoping to be able to pick my way through . . . we are pretty "old growth" around here, so there isn't much underbrush or saplings . . . the woods are pretty open
- Be able to go out on the trails and have some fun occasionally
- Its just my wife an myself, but it would be nice to be able to take family/friends out with us if we go to the trails
- I have an F150 w/a 5.5' bed so either will need a trailer to be moved
- I'm hoping to pick something up used for $5-6k

I am figuring I will need a set of tracks regardless of the vehicle chosen.

Seeing as i only have experience beating the Max II around on the trails, can you guys provide some input based upon my intended useage to help me make this decision?

Thanks so much!!!

Brad

[Mike]

Before I got to your budget, I was leaning towards recommending an Avenger. Seeing your budget and your requirement for tracks, I would say that a Max IV would be the best fit. It will do most of what you need it for. You can also get a much newer version with upgraded drivetrain within your budget. You can get a really good, 2000 or later Max IV, if you are patient, for around $4000-4500 but that's without tracks. Tracks, bearing extensions, new tires for tracks, etc. could set you back several thousand more. You may be able to find some used tracks for sale or get a Max IV with tracks for around $6k but that may take a little longer to find the right one. You don't see them for sale with tracks as often as you do without tracks.

If you go with an Argo, I'm worried that your budget may push you towards a well-used Conquest. The Conquest is a fine machine, it's the well-used part I would be worried about. You take a chance of getting a machine whose maintenance costs could push you well over your budget while also leaving you without a machine to use for a while. You take that chance with any machine but the odds are worse, the older they are and the more hours they have.

Hopefully someone else can chime in with some additional advice.

[trick76cj5]

Thanks for the thoughts, you make very good points, and those very points were what led me to the Max IV initially.

I guess to clarify, I am looking to spend 5-6k to get into the machine, it doesn't have to have tracks initially. I'd like to get the best machine possible for the 5-6k and then upgrade it over time . . . so the tracks, axle upgrades, bearing upgrades etc would be above and beyond the initial 5-6k. I figure i'll probably have an additional 3-4k into it over the next few years to get everything where I want it.

So, assuming i'm just looking at a base machine for 5-6k with add ons coming later . . . where does that put me?

BTW, what is considered "well used"? Are there certain hour marks that the Argo's (or Max's) generally see high cost service points or typical failures?

Thanks!

[JoeMeg]

Hi Brad,I live in NE Ohio also. Own property on PA side of Pymatuning Res. for firewood and recreation. Will retire to,and heat with wood,a place just north of Andover. I,like Mike,was leaning toward the Argo 8x8 until I saw the budget. Mike summed it up well. I do my "logging" with a 6x6 Argo and am confident a Max IV will be every bit as capable. And I still joy ride in the Argo at times even though the little,lighter machines are a whole lot more fun,I feel they would struggle to do the same "work" as my Argo or any Max IV. Come out to Pine Lake Raceway in June and have some fun,sounds as though your not far from there.

[trick76cj5]

Great! Was hoping to be able to meet some people here somewhat local. I grew up in the Streetsboro/Ravenna area then left that state for about 10 years. I just moved back this spring with a wife, and we just bought our house this fall. Man, its been a whirlwind! Anyway, all of my connections from growing up have moved away, so I'm starting from scratch.

So, i guess the question is, what would be a "realistic" budget to go the 8x route? It seems the 8X may be my better route . . . so if i have to save a little longer to get the investment $, it sounds like it may be the wiser choice. I would rather spend the $ once, i'm not really a believer in the "upgrade in a year or two if you want more" school of thought . . . it always costs more to go that way.

[jtb51b]

I cant offer much on the snow issues. I can tell you that while a max iv is a very capable machine and pretty nimble, it does NOT have the hauling capacity of the 8x8. If you plan to use it for as much work as play the 8x8 will suit you better. Both machines will pull a trailer around with your firewood (i heat with wood myself) but the max will leave you with no where to haul the stuff you use in the woods other than that trailer. I usually use my tractor to haul wood and it has the same problem- only upside is that it has a loader up front to put your saws ETC in. I really enjoyed my max iv, it was great, but i think this 8x8 is going to do me (and would probably do you) better in the long run. There was a machine in minnesota for sale on here a while back-- needed some work but he was asking 6k and i think it had tracks and a plow with it! ITs in the for sale section. 2007 avenger?

Jason

[trick76cj5]

Jason, I'm afraid you're right in that although the Max IV will probably get my by, I think it will ultimately leave me wanting more. And, thanks for your input regarding your experience with the Max.

I checked in the for sale section and all i found was an 07 Frontier for sale (which from my research appears to be a 6x6), he hasn't been on since early Nov, but i sent him a message . . . thanks for that heads up.

I'll definitely keep looking and maybe just wait a little while until we can comfortably afford an 8X.

[jtb51b]

I see, yeah that could be a 6x6. My frontier is an 8x8 but it could go either way apparently.

Good Luck!

Jason

[trick76cj5]

So, I've been doing all my research, and upselling myself to a newer and newer machine and ultimately decided that i needed a new machine . . .LOL, isn't that how it always goes! I'd love to try out that admiral, I've seen some pretty cool videos of how it works and seems like a real solid approach to a solution. But it will take me 5 years to save the $ for a new one . . . and based on the rate of inflation of these machines every year i don't know I'll ever catch up! I can't beleive that some of these machines go for the price of a nice brand new car! Just crazy! Anyway, I digress. . .

So, after a lot of consideration, here is what i'm thinking. I think an 8X is the way to go, but the Avengers are just a little out of my price range, and based on how much i'm going to use it (and how far away from home) I don't think i can justify spending more cash on it.

So, I'm thinking a late 90's early 00's Conquest 8X8 may be a good fit for me. Granted, they don't have the banana frame, are lower on HP, and use sticks instead of the "T" handle, here are my thoughts:

1) Older Machine- I know my way around a shop, I've never had new cars or ATV's and I've built a number of my own vehicles from a pile of parts from somebody else's garage, so maintaining it won't be an issue . . . granted I will have to be careful as the cost of parts can close the price gap between an older machine and a newer machine that doesn't need the work pretty quickly.

2) Lower HP- For work around the house, i can overcome this with low range . . . we only have 5 acres here so being able to do 30mph isn't really an issue. but it would be nice to have a little more power for trail riding. After doing some research, I found that Kawasaki made the FD620D-AS02 (and versions there of) which are supplied in these Argos . . . these are rated at 20HP. Kawaski has a 22HP version of this motor (FD620D-AS00) that is carbureted as well . . . they are the same bore and stroke, same pistons and heads . . . so i'm still working through the parts manual to see if i can find where that 2 HP comes from. Looking at the power curves of the 20, 22, and 25 HP Kaw's . . .the 22 really seems to have the best torque curve, at 3600 rpm the 22 has like 5 ft-lbs more torque than the 25 . . . so that would give me something to play with. Additionally, i can bump the RPM to 4000 with a small adjustment to the governor. 400 RPM is about and 11% overspeed which would drive a 22% increase in stresses in the motor . . . which, based on my experience, should easily fall within the safety factor the OEM's design into their product. 2 more HP, 10% more rpm, and a few clutch tweaks should get me into the low/mid 20mph range pretty easily I would think.

3) The lack of "T" handles isn't a big deal to me, I grew up on sticks but was thinking the T handle would be easier for my wife to learn. But sticks aren't difficult to learn, and I really don't imagine her using it too awful much.

Do you see any drawbacks in my thoughts on this, am i missing anything?

Thanks so much!

Brad

[ARGOJIM]

Here's something that may influence your decision, it's just over the border so a test drive will tell you if your an Argo guy or not.
1998 argo conquest
This is the older framed Conquest with the scissor type chain tensioners, looks like it has tracks and winch. Look at frame for rust issues and look under radiator for add on alternator kit. All Conquest were Kawasaki engine , bearing extensions, splined axle/sprocket, skid plate, trailer hitch machines.

[trick76cj5]

I've actually got that one bookmarked, sent him an email today, I think he had his phone number listed as well so I'll give him a call tomorrow afternoon if I don't get a response. Is 500+hrs a lot on these machines?

[eddieb1965]

Real nice Argo Response with tire upgrade,winch and brushguard on St.Louis CL. 150 hrs. 7500.00

[philipatmaxfour]

Hi trick76cj5, Back to your long question about the Kawasaki 20 hp liquid engine. I would call to your attention a member who actually prefers the Argo Conquest to the 31 hp Avenger that I own. I think he is wrong,but he has many many hours of using his machines in very rough conditions and his young daughters often doing the stick operating. He has posted How To videos of replacing bearings and assembling tracks and has built a cargo rack or two that U Haul would be proud of. check out his site and let us know what you think. His site is Rock doc and until lately he only used the Kaw engine that comes stock in Conquests, which are 8wheelers. Welcome! We love seeing others bitten by the amphib bug.

[wheeler]

I'm partial to MaxIV. But, we all have our opinions. The reason my opinion is as such is that the Max IV is not only a work horse, but it is still a lot of fun to drive. I use my MaxIV for hunting, mudding, pulling logs out of the woods and just plain having fun. With the addidition of Muddox buying the Max line, you might find some new and exciting things to happen in the very near future. Cost is one thing that I would seriously consider. Argo's a little more pricey then Max. The closeness of a dealer and others who have a machine like yours is also a nice consideration. They can help with maintenance issues. Take your time driving both machines and try to find a knowledgable dealer for each brand of machine. Good luck and let us know what you ultimately decide.

[mightymaxIV]

I would consider a used Argo 6x6 Frontier-I like the 650. Since they have a two speed transmission with a low range you could get more work done and possibly haul a small trailer. If you could find a used frontier 8x8 that would be the machine for your situation, but they are hard to find and more then you would want to spend. The MaxIV is more fun to drive and offers better control but I feel the Argo is just a little more heavy duty for work. An 18 horse Frontier 6x6 could probably do everything you need it to do and there is always the possibility of running into a set of used Adair tracks for a good price.