Some questions before I buy

[otlski]

Hi All,

Complete Newbie here. I looked at a 2014 Max IV with 30 hours on it this morning and have a few questions.

Today was the first time I ever drove one. I had trouble shifting from forward to reverse. I got a grinding in the gears when attempting to get out of neutral. So I would be in neutral, pull back both sticks, trying to go into reverse, and get grinding noise. I eventually got it by shutting off the motor, getting into reverse, and turning it back on. When I drove back to the seller, he showed me how to goose the sticks to get it to go easier. He thought that with only 30 hrs that it needed to be broken in. My only other observation is that the idle seemed somewhat high. Could that have the issue? The high idle spun the CVT enough that the shifting was hard? Or, is this normal operation of a Max?

Is there any factory support for these. The one I looked at is badged as a Max, the owner's manual had a Mudd Ox business card attached to it; and Mudd Ox is no longer affiliated with Max? Do I have that right? What's the story for future support?

Those are my initial questions for now, I am sure I'll have more and thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Thanks,
Dan

[tbone9]

Hello and welcome to the site. First of all the Max is a little tricky to shift. It has a very tuff transmission as the shifting indicates. The high idle will definitely make it harder shifting. Idle should be set low enough so the clutch is not engaged.
Mudd Ox bought the Max line and produced them for a few years and no longer do. As far a support there isn't any dealers however parts are readily available as well as information. You will find anything and everything you want to know right here. The Max is no longer sold due to buisiness decisions not due to reliability and the transmission is still being produced and used in the Mudd Ox. I hope this clarifies things.

[garrett1308]

What Tbone said. Max6x6.com sells all the parts you'll need for the machine should something go out. Just make sure to keep up with the maintenance. Also, never force your transmission into gear, it should always be gentle. Play with the sticks like your dealer showed you, and also rock the machine back and forth, it'll rotate the gears and help align everything. Don't let that scare you away from it. The tranny is fantastic other than shifting and oil changes.

[otlski]

Thanks guys. Two more questions for you all. When I did get into reverse I could not seem to get it to skid turn while backing up. Granted I had got into a tough spot trying to do a K-turn with a steep embankment on one side, so I did not go crazy trying. Should I expect to be able to turn while backing up?

The guy selling it mentioned that going down steep hills was tricky. He was seemingly saying that the CVT might freewheel (like my side-by-side does, and that the tendency for a beginner would be to pull the sicks back hard to brake, and the Max would nose-dive and get a little scary. I think that if that was was he was saying, I get it. But, it brings up a new question. If I am going down a 20-deg hill and it freewheels, how would I steer without giving it enough throttle to engage then skid. Does pulling the stick back on one side while freewheeling successfully steer nonetheless?

Thanks again.

[tbone9]

Yes you will be able to turn backwards just as good as frontwards everything is just opposite. As far as going down hill the Max IV is well balanced but like anything if the hill is too steep you could endo with a sudden stop. It would have to be pretty steep though. And while going downhill you must give it a little throttle to turn as you mentioned. These things sound intimidating at first but after a short while become second nature. Not sure what part of the country you're from but if by chance you're close you could come and drive mine to get a better feel for it.

[dirtdobber]

If I am going down a 20-deg hill and it freewheels, how would I steer without giving it enough throttle to engage then skid. Does pulling the stick back on one side while freewheeling successfully steer nonetheless?

Hi otlski,

I may be misreading your question, but I want to make sure you understand something about the T20 transmission and freewheeling. Let's say you are at idle and freewheeling down a steep hill. The braking action of the transmission will still work, even though the CVT clutch is not engaged, as long as the transmission is not in neutral. The braking action comes from a set of drums inside the transmission and does not rely on the drive belt for brakes. So, if you were just rolling along at idle and had enough momentum, you could apply the brake to one side or the other to steer the machine. As tbone said, though, if you needed to power one side the machine you will have to throttle up and engage the clutch.

[otlski]

Yes you will be able to turn backwards just as good as frontwards everything is just opposite. As far as going down hill the Max IV is well balanced but like anything if the hill is too steep you could endo with a sudden stop. It would have to be pretty steep though. And while going downhill you must give it a little throttle to turn as you mentioned. These things sound intimidating at first but after a short while become second nature. Not sure what part of the country you're from but if by chance you're close you could come and drive mine to get a better feel for it.

I am in Connecticut but thanks for the offer. Right now I have to decide if the use I'd get out of it is worth close to his asking price.

[otlski]

Hi otlski,

I may be misreading your question, but I want to make sure you understand something about the T20 transmission and freewheeling. Let's say you are at idle and freewheeling down a steep hill. The braking action of the transmission will still work, even though the CVT clutch is not engaged, as long as the transmission is not in neutral. The braking action comes from a set of drums inside the transmission and does not rely on the drive belt for brakes. So, if you were just rolling along at idle and had enough momentum, you could apply the brake to one side or the other to steer the machine. As tbone said, though, if you needed to power one side the machine you will have to throttle up and engage the clutch.

You read it the way I meant it. Thanks for the reply, it is helpful in understanding the capabilities.

[otlski]

One more question. The seller (2nd owner) has 21" tires and tracks for it but I did not see wheel spacers. He never had them mounted. I am going to guess the tracks are factory because the original owner seemed to buy the "whole package". The tracks are rubber with no openness and are about 12-13" wide, would I need spacers?

Thanks,
Dan

[tbone9]

Yes. 3" wheel spacers. Factory tracks are 15" wide.

[otlski]

So the Max IV I was looking at is still available. I would welcome more advice. I am primarily interested in a tracked Max or Argo for mixed winter conditions. What I mean by mixed conditions is that I live in northwestern Connecticut where we average 70 inches of snow per year. I have acreage, heavily forested (I burn wood), and a small cabin out behind the house. In a typical winter we will have intermittent snow cover from December to March; sometimes bare ground, sometimes 18 inches, sometimes both at the same time depending on sun exposure and terrain. The cabin is for enjoyment and is a half mile away up several 12-18 degree hills. I fell most trees in winter and split other time of the year. Right now I access the property with an old side by side and a 4WD tractor (high pucker factor on the hills) for three seasons. I am considering the Max/Argo for the winter work and enjoyment. Although I have a brook, occasional beaver pond, I will not want/need the amphibious aspect of such vehicles. Minimal cargo carrying capacity is needed.

The Max IV was referring to at the start of this thread is here. https://nwct.craigslist.org/snw/d/ma...263560318.html
He is willing to come down to just below $9,000 and deliver 30 miles included. He does not have a title. He does not have the wheel spacers. I believe considering all that he is overpriced even for CT.

A local Argo dealer has this for I believe the yellow 6X6 version.

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/snw/d/sale-must-go-atv-argo-under/6226730081.html

Add $1500 for plastic tracks and we have $13,500 without tax etc.

I see that here, in PA, the prices seem more reasonable.
Argo FRONTIER 6x6 (6X6 TUNDRA, *18466) 2017 $8,999.00 Shank's Argo

Some questions:
Is it weird that the Max IV has no title given that it is 2014?

What would you pay for the MAX as pictured?

For say an Argo Frontier, do you need smaller than stock tires to put on tracks? How tall are the stock tires?

Since the tub dragging is most likely to be the cause of getting stuck in snow, does the Max or Argo come with better clearance (without modifying the tub)?

Would the Max as pictured with rubber tracks outperform the Argo with plastic tracks from Richard’s Relics?

Seeing that I am unlikely to go amphibious, would a EFI Polaris Ranger with tracks be a better solution? Cost $12,000 used and $3500 for camoplast.

Would the MAX/Argo outperform the tracked Ranger in the snow which is rarely deep powder?

Thanks for any answers?
Dan

[hipowerone]

For my 2 cents worth, $9k sounds fair for a machine that new and has only 27 hrs on the 23HP motor....as most track installations require the smaller 21" tires, if those are a complete set of 21"x11.00-8 tires/rims that is nearly $810 from one dealer alone, and add in the price of the tracks, Top, windshield, winch...does it have the bearing cages? As for the title, did he say the machine is paid for, free and clear? If not the finance company/bank may be holding the title. If not, what reason did he give for no title? This can often be bypassed by having him sign a statement in the bill of sale swearing or affirming that he is selling it free of liens and encumbrances. As for which machine or setup will be a better performer, it may all well be up to the individual user.

[otlski]

Thanks for the reply. It does have the bearing cages. The seller is saying that the guy who sold it to him did not have the title. If I proceed I will certainly ask for a waiver statement.

Thanks again.