Mudd-Ox vs the Argo HDI

[mudbug3]

( QUOTE ) ' After driving a Mudd-ox for the first time last weekend i too agree with larryw the hydraulic whine isnt noticeable. Most of the time all i heard was the engine cooling fan. The 40 horse kohler engine was amazing, the machine had great power and i loved how it handled. I hav'nt driven a new argo but heard they dont turn as tight. One thing i really liked about the Mudd-ox is how great it turned in tight spots in the woods. Matt builds a great machine in my opinion and i would probably jump in one of those before the argo. '



CrazyColt222 ,


That was an exellent post about the Mudd-Ox for those people who are concerned about the whine of the hydrolics.

[mudbug3]

liflod ,


This is what I was told by Tory about the noise on a Mudd-Ox:

this all depends on how much gas you give it while you operate it.

The more throttle you give it , the more noise it will make. It has a throttle control like a Max. Once you decide that you have ample engine RPM to perform on the terrain your operating in , you push forward on the sticks to go forward , or pull backward to go in reverse. If the Mudd-Ox does not move , then you just increase the throttle.

[liflod]

The funny part is Tory and I were together in the machine for our first Mudd-Ox experience.

The other advantages the 'Ox has over the Argo is the weight distribution and ground clearance.
The Mudd-Ox gives complete control to the driver, there are no funny things that happen if one side loses traction.

[Bw6]

Test Drive Argo HDi

I recently took the new Argo 750 HDi EFi for a test drive, here are my first impressions.

Low Gear:

1. Turning takes less force than the power steering in your car/truck.
2. Turns in it's own length, counter-rotates, perfect circle.
3. Counter-rotating side, rotates VERY SLOWLY, you have to look closely to see what is really happening. Works more like dynamic braking, but VERY EFFECTIVE.
4. Gearing seems to be a bit lower (higher ratio numerically) than an Avenger. Climbs steep grades without hesitation, no lack of power.
5. The best way to describe handling is it's intuitive. Meaning think of turning and it's doing it!
6. Changing gears from High to Low, is done by a small 2 position lever mounted on the dash. Can change gears "on the fly", it will automatically engage when the rpm is right (no grinding). There is another gear shift lever in the traditional position for F-N-R.
7. No noticeable power loss when turning.
8. Low gear top speed 15 mph. (2 people on board) On board digital speedometer.

High Gear:

1. Can turn 360 degrees with ease, like a typical Argo. Turns are not as tight as low gear. No noticeable power loss, but seems like it is working harder. Heading corrections are done with very light pressure on the handlebar.
2. Top speed 21 mph, (2 people on board) On board digital speedometer.

Water:


1. Travels in the water with the nose down (Typical Avenger).
2. Water Speed is 3 mph.
3. Handling in the water is typical Avenger with new 25" (Frontier style) tires. No problem turning, stability is typical Avenger.
4. Tried counter-rotating, not effective. Tires have little or no effect in reverse because of tread design. Also because of the slow counter-rotating speed.
5. Exits out of water easily.

General Impressions/Observations:

1. Ride comfort is excellent, the extra padding in the seats does make a difference, as well as the soft side wall tires. Also the redesigned firewall allows for more leg extension. That combined with the effortless steering and "right on" gearing make it a pleasure to drive. 31 HP EFi doesn't hurt either!
2. Admiral triple differential transmission, is what makes this a different "Argo". They call it a "steering" transmission, I believe the design origins are from military tank applications. If it holds up to the "Public Abuse", I think they have a winner.
3. Argo has clearly targeted the "side-by-side" market with the HDi, only time and market share will tell how successful they are.
4. The fit and finish seems a little step up from the typical very good product that ODG produces. The new floor panels are VERY tight fitting, should keep most of the debris out of the chain troughs.
6. Don't know yet if the HDi is a "True" all wheel drive yet, but will be doing more testing in the "Real" world soon to determine this.
7. Also will be doing a video walk around, and shooting some video out in the real world, but right now I feel they "got it right". If you have driven or have an Argo you will be impressed with this machine.

[mudbug3]

Bw6 ,


Exellent reveiw of the new Argo 750 HDI. Two big thumbs up Ray !

[liflod]

If you have driven or have an Argo you will be impressed with this machine.

What about those who have never driven or owned an Argo? Isn't that the market they are aiming for?

[Bw6]

Argo Market

Liflod,

Sorry I didn't mean to leave all the owners of other AATV's out of the picture, LOL. I was just trying to point out that existing Argo owners or people who have test drove other Argo products would notice the biggest differences.

Like I pointed out what makes the HDi different is the Admiral transmission, especially in low gear. where the counter-rotation comes into play.

Thanks for pointing this out Liflod.

[liflod]

I'm just busting your (tires)

Any chance of finding the patent number on the transmission so I can see how it works?

[Roger S]

It ain't much, Lance, but you can get your magnifying glass out and scratch your beard..

Gears, ODG Gearboxes, ODG Quiet Gears, ODG Custom Transmissions, KTR Couplings

[lewis]

I agree with BW6, the steering is almost effortless and when i drove it, it was on pavement. Even on the pavement it rotated in its own footprint. Since i have a 2006 Avenger there is quite a bit of difference in the performance of the 2010. I will not be trading for one but,...if i was in the market for a machine it would be high on my list.

[Bw6]

Argo Transmission Patent

I just competed a patent search for ODG and the Admiral HDi transmission. I also searched "patent pending" applications and found nothing under Ontario Drive and Gear.

I did however find the patent for the Centaur Transmission which seems to me a lot like the Admiral in the HDi. This transmission basically works by having one set of tires rotate faster than the other side in a large radius turn, and gradually increasing this ratio to 7:1 in which case one side counter-rotates. This ratio changes by steering inputs. It uses planetary gear sets, which divide the torque equally under light loads, but can be unequal under heavy loads. The patent is pretty heavy reading (14 pages) if your not versed in engineering, but could have been simplified without going into all the different examples. BSBB (BS. Baffels Brains)

US Patent Number: 6,454,031 B2

[liflod]

I tried searching for the patent when I first heard the news about it. I had less luck than you did. Its easier with the patent #. I've found the T-20, and scrambler patents and loads of other interesting ideas on the patent web site. If anyone can get a patent # off the trans, please let us know.

[mudbug3]

[martwell]

Argo HDi last vidéo

Hello Mudbud, as i was watching and reading this post, I tough that i could put my new vidéo of the 2010 HDi counter rotating in the sand and you beat me again, you are so fast buddy!!!

Have a nice day

Martwell

[bcsteve]

Argo HDi demo video

Here's short video I found demonstrating the Admiral transmission. Notice that the engine doesn't even change sound when turning.