Nice to meet you, doing some research

[icymudpuppy]

Hello,

I have not been a long time reader, nor have I ever before had any special interest in Amphibious ATVs. However, I have been asked to bid a job for a local municipality which may require the use of one, and I would like to ask some questions and get some opinions.

The job is trapping beaver which are damming up stormwater runoff and floodwater mitigation ditches for an urban area.

The ditches are part of a creek watershed which encompasses about 75 acres of swamp land.

In the summer time, the swamp is mostly dry and the canary grass takes over. The grass completely chokes the streambed preventing normal boat operation. I tried to float it in my kayak but was constantly dragging and getting hung up on grasses and mud mounds. It took 3 hours to go 1 mile. In open water I can go 1 mile in about 10 minutes, faster if there's a decent current. The potholes and hidden anklebusters make walking to the stream almost impossible.

In the winter time, the entire swamp will under about a foot of water which I should be able to kayak easier, but will also have more beaver activity which means more dams to traverse, and many large culverts which I could float through this time of year, will be completely submerged and I'll have to portage over roadways. One freeway overpass will be a 500 yard portage.

So, I want to ask a few questions.

1. I expect there will be many places where an amphibious will have one side on mud/land and the other side in water. How do these things handle in those circumstances?

2. What model has the lowest clearance above water when completely aquatic? I have some places where bridges, wires, and limbs give low clearance above the water.

3. This is in Lewis County, WA. There are no dealerships close to me. The closest is an Argo dealership in Ridgefield, Clark County about 1.5 hours drive but they only have 3 in stock, and Argos are awfully expensive. Anybody here locally available to let me test drive? I'd pay a rental fee.

4. There is a person nearby with an old amphicat needing an engine and chains who will sell cheap. Are parts for this easy to find, or are they interchangeable with any existing models? This one has tracks. Are Amphicat tracks useable on Modern Max's?

5. If I descend the spillway of a 4 foot high beaver dam in a MaxIV, will I swamp the boat? If I have to buy new, I'm looking at a Max since they are the most reasonably priced.

6. There's a fellow in Lebanon Oregon (about a 5 hour drive) with a Max IV for sale used with lots of upgrades. (winch etc)

7. I will be dealing with a lot of mud. Do tracks give better performance in water too?

8. If you were me, what would you consider to be the perfect machine for the job?

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

Pleasure to meet all of you.
-Jack

[Mike]

1. I expect there will be many places where an amphibious will have one side on mud/land and the other side in water. How do these things handle in those circumstances?

The side on mud/land will have traction and turn you in the opposite direction towards the side in the water. You will end up either traveling in or out of the water.

2. What model has the lowest clearance above water when completely aquatic? I have some places where bridges, wires, and limbs give low clearance above the water.

You can view specs on each machine on the manufacturers websites. Amphibious Six-Wheel Drive All-Terrain Vehicles: MaxATVs - Call 1-800-255-2511 and http://www.argoatv.com

You will most likely want to get one without a roll bar or roll cage and then there won't be much sticking out of the water regardless of which model you choose.

3. This is in Lewis County, WA. There are no dealerships close to me. The closest is an Argo dealership in Ridgefield, Clark County about 1.5 hours drive but they only have 3 in stock, and Argos are awfully expensive. Anybody here locally available to let me test drive? I'd pay a rental fee.

You may want to start a new thread in the "local 6x6 World members" forum for a better response but unfortunately we do not have many members in WA that I am aware of.

4. There is a person nearby with an old amphicat needing an engine and chains who will sell cheap. Are parts for this easy to find, or are they interchangeable with any existing models? This one has tracks. Are Amphicat tracks useable on Modern Max's?

Some parts are easy to find but some specific to certain ATVs are difficult especially when the ATV hasn't been produced in over 20 years. I would shy away from the amphicat if I were you and get something with a transmission that has more parts available.

5. If I descend the spillway of a 4 foot high beaver dam in a MaxIV, will I swamp the boat? If I have to buy new, I'm looking at a Max since they are the most reasonably priced.

No, you will not swamp it. Check out the video on the front page of the site to see a Max IV entering a mud hole at a steep angle. The worst that will happen is a little water will come in over the front but if you take it really slow even that won't happen.

6. There's a fellow in Lebanon Oregon (about a 5 hour drive) with a Max IV for sale used with lots of upgrades. (winch etc)

See the used ATV buyers guide in the how-to section of the site before you go to look at it.

7. I will be dealing with a lot of mud. Do tracks give better performance in water too?

No, tires give better performance in water.

8. If you were me, what would you consider to be the perfect machine for the job?

Since you will be spending most of your time in the water I would be sure to get something with the best swimming tires available. On a Max IV, this would be the 26" Goodyear tires (even though they give a VERY rough ride on land) and on an Argo, as long as you get either of the new Argo tires, the 24" frontier tires or the 25" Avenger tires, they will swim pretty well.

Or you could always just get a trolling motor if you find something different in your price range.

[icymudpuppy]

You can view specs on each machine on the manufacturers websites. Amphibious Six-Wheel Drive All-Terrain Vehicles: MaxATVs - Call 1-800-255-2511 and Amphibious Vehicles - Amphibious ARGO ATV, ARGO AATV, ARGO All Terrain Vehicle

The specs don't tell me how far the gunwales extend above water when the vehicle is empty.

See the used ATV buyers guide in the how-to section of the site before you go to look at it.

That is awesome, thank you.

[racerone3]

here are picture replies to a couple of your questions

this machine drove (with some speed) into the water in a place where the bank dropped straight down. it took in a little water over the front of the machine but popped back up like a bobber.

in this shot, all the machines are floating. most have roll cages, but with the cages removed the tops of the machines are all less than 2 feet above the top of the water. sometimes you will have one side or corner higher than the rest as you rock the machine back and forth to help it change direction

[icymudpuppy]

Since you will be spending most of your time in the water I would be sure to get something with the best swimming tires available. On a Max IV, this would be the 26" Goodyear tires (even though they give a VERY rough ride on land) and on an Argo, as long as you get either of the new Argo tires, the 24" frontier tires or the 25" Avenger tires, they will swim pretty well.

For my purposes, the water will be very shallow most of the time and I will likely get traction on the mud down below most of the time. But what makes the 26" tires rough riding. Since I don't see any kind of shocks or springs on any 6x6 I would think that they all ride awfully rough compared to a Quad regardless of the wheel diameter. I have some experience on bicycles, and have found that the larger your wheel diameter, the better you will roll over obstacles which usually gives a smoother ride with larger wheels. Is inflation of the tire, or the stiffness of the sidewalls the primary issue?

here are picture replies to a couple of your questions

Very helpful, thank you. 2feet of clearance is fine. I should make it under all obstacles without difficulty if I duck my head and torso down... No change in posture was necessary at all in the kayak of course, but then my a** is just below the water line.

Is is a back and forth rocking that you use to change direction, or do you lean into or away from the turn like a regular boat banks into turns?

[Mike]

Most tracks just don't swim well at all. The 26" tires that come on Max ATVs have a very stiff sidewall so they are rougher. It's not the diameter of the tire in this case that makes the difference, I was just referring to the only 26" tire that comes stock on a six wheeler. The actual name is the Goodyear Terra Grip. A general rule of thumb is that the larger the tire is, with the same size wheel, the better the ride will be holding everything else equal.

We air our tires down to 2-3 PSI to eliminate a lot of the shock. You can actually get a decent ride out of most six wheelers this way. It's not a suspension quality ride but it is at least enjoyable. Leaning to one side can make you turn sharper in the water but it is not necessary. You can turn by just using the tires like you do on land. Rocking back and forth usually helps if you are moving slowly through mud / shallow water because it will push one side down to the bottom where otherwise it wouldn't reach.

[racerone3]

Mike beat me to it

the reason (S) that the 26" goodyears on a max make it rough riding both boil down to sidewall. first, the sidewall is very stiff on those tires, and they are mounted on 12" wheels so there is less sidewall height to absorb the shock.

you can pretty much sit dead center in the machine and steer in the water just like you would on land. to make a tight left turn in water, stop the left tires while the rights keep turning. shift your body weight to the left side of the machine, this will tilt the machine to the left and raise the right side tires higher in the water. the higher the tires are in the water the better "traction" they will get. (with the tires low in the water they tend to displace water down the front of the tire, and up in the rear, neither of which do much for forward propulsion). you can also gain water speed in a straight (ish) line by keeping all tires spinning, and rocking the machine slowly side to side. this method alternates one side or the other sitting high in the water and can gain a little speed (in some machines)

[icymudpuppy]

couple more questions for today...

I've been watching a lot of the videos. It seems that the Max's with their rear engine tend to lean back, while Argos have a front engine and lean forward a bit. Which do you think gives better performance in swamps?

Also, which is quieter stock? The Max's seem louder in the videos, but it's hard to say.

[TalSet]

i own a max IV with a 16 hp vanguard stock motor. while moving slowly through a grass field, i was able to get within 50 feet of a friend of mine who was preparing his bow hunting treestand before he heard me. i have also driven within feet of bedded deer before spooking them.

[icymudpuppy]

I have a little experience with skid steer, my Dad has an old D9, and a bobcat that I grew up using on our farm, and I was a tanker in the Army in Abrams. In all of these, you can move one side in forward and the other in reverse, to spin in your own profile. Can these do that too, and does it work in water too?

[jpswift1]

I have a little experience with skid steer, my Dad has an old D9, and a bobcat that I grew up using on our farm, and I was a tanker in the Army in Abrams. In all of these, you can move one side in forward and the other in reverse, to spin in your own profile. Can these do that too, and does it work in water too?

With a Max II or a Max IV you can add a split shifter set up that allows you to counter-rotate so that one side spins forward and the other spins in reverse.

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/content/347-skid-steer-split-shifter.html

An Argo will not be able to do this. And yes, this should work in the water as well.

[icymudpuppy]

Is that modification necessary on the new max's at all? In the photos on the Max website they already have two levers. How do they operate?

[jpswift1]

That modification isn't necessary......they still turn VERY well without it. The two levers in the pictures are for your steering.

[icymudpuppy]

Okay, I guess I'm not understanding how the controls work.

On my dad's bobcat for example there are two levers and a throttle. The throttle controls Power and top speed. The levers are for each side. The left lever is left side, and right lever is right side. If you push a lever forward, that side goes forward, the farther forward you push, the faster it goes forward up to the limit of the throttle. Let it go and it rests in neutral. Pull it back and that side moves backwards, the farther backward you pull the faster it goes backward up to the limits of the throttle. Pull one backward and push the other forward and you will spin. Push one forward all the way and the other just slightly less and you will execute a gentle turn. the less pressure you give to the slower side the sharper your turn and you can even go from moving straight forward to relaxing movement on one side entering a sharper and sharper turn and even swing the slow side into reverse as you go into a spin.

How does the max operate? I can't find any operating instructions online. The T-20 manual I see on this website uses too much technical wording and doesn't explain how the tranny relates to the throttle and speed, but I do see that you have to come to a complete stop to put the transmission from forward to reverse. Then, does pushing the levers forward make you go in reverse? Do you go faster the faster you push the levers? What are the little squeeze handles for?

Here are two 6x6s I'm looking at.

ebay #320603662613 shipping is $650 to me.
craigslist http://corvallis.craigslist.org/rvs/1955395508.html

Here is an 8x8 I could afford. also about $650 shipping
ebay #260679178133

[Tom]

The squeeze handle is your throttle.These don't use a set and forget throttle like a boat.Except for the hydraulic driven models,You will be working with the gas and working the laterals to control direction and speed.A stock max won't counter rotate,but it can be made to do so,with a split shifter mod.The lateral's job does'nt have any thing to do with the counter rotation act,just steering and brakes.They say to picture a T-20 as 2 transmisions with a shared input shaft all in one case,with 2 output shafts and 2 mode selecters.Hope it helps.