Amphibious ATV Choices

[Scottw]

Hello everyone,

My name is Scott & I lime in Pottsville, PA.
I have been considering a 6x6 or 8x8 for some time and have been trying to do some research to help educate myself a little before deciding on which one. (this may have been a mistake because I am now more confused than ever :-) )

I am leaning heavily toward an 8x8 although I like the utility aspect of the Max Buffalo.
Is the Buffalo under powered for its size and ability to haul?

I mostly want it for play but it is easier to tell myself I can use it for some work also ha,ha.
I will want to be able to push snow for sure though.

I am considering argo & mudd ox also.
The mudd ox site has virtually no specs or information, I have read here that there is a diesel version but can find nothing about it.

The transmission/driveline differences are also most confusing.

Argo seems to have a new one, not sure what improvement it made or how it differs from the MAX T-20(?) Is it similar now?

Mudd-ox seems to have some sort of hydraulic to chain hybrid drive system, again not a lot of details on their site. In their defense I emailed them & they got back to me same day asking me to call them to discuss, which I will do. I had hoped to get something in black & white that I could use to compare to the Argo & Max specs though.

I have a Steiner tractor that is hydraulic drive & has been trouble free for 12+ years but there are no chains involved.

My Father had a Ranger 6x6 side by side with a dump bed & plow It's been decent but he has had clutch problems. I'm not sure pushing snow is a good thing for it's drivetrain.

I also came across HydroTraxx, Hydrotrek, Land Tamer, Kid, Balrog,Triton & a few others that have very little info out there.

Most of the information I have been able to find is either MAX or Argo.

I have looked & hoped to find some sort of up to date comparison chart somewhere -- no luck.

I would like to purchase in the next month or so but how do I decide with limited knowledge?

I have babbled on enough for now.

Thank You,

Scott
struggling with what to buy

[Mike]

Hi Scott,

Welcome to the site. I copied this post of yours from the introduction thread to it's own thread since you had a good many questions. Your question is a difficult one to answer. It would basically be like asking a stranger, "Which automobile should I get"? It's hard to compare every one of them to each other, or to know which one would suit you best. With that said, let me make some suggestions.

Really read through the site and watch the videos that members post. You can start to see which machines perform better in different scenarios. Try to connect with some 6x6 World members near you and go for a ride. Or, locate a dealer near you and go talk to them. If you can narrow down exactly what you will be using it for, that will help you narrow your search.

You mentioned mainly using it for play and perhaps some plowing. A 6x6 can plow snow fine so an 8x8 is really not necessary. Unless you are going to be doing some serious work with the ATV then a hydraulic machine is probably overkill. The hydrotrek, hydrotraxx, mudd-ox, land tamer, etc are all larger, heavier, and more expensive machines. While they would do anything you would ask of them (and more), they are probably unnecessary.

Of course, if you are leaning more towards a work horse, then that is a different story. In that case, I would probably lean more towards the Argo 8x8 over the Buffalo Truck. It's not an easy question to answer. Your best bet is to find someone else to ride with and start there.

[Scottw]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the welcome.

Yea, I know It's like asking "whats the best truck?" .

I thought I had it figured out when I only knew about Argo & Max. Then I stumbled across this place & started reading...
The more I read the harder the decision becomes, ha, ha.

I think I do have it narrowed down between the Argo 750HDI & Max IV or Buffalo and the Mudd-Ox.
There are no dealers around me but I have sent a few email questions to all the above.

To clear things up a little, my priorities are:
1. Have some fun & spend some time with my two teenage kids (one boy & one girl).
2. I would love to be able to use it to push snow with. I use my tractor now but the older I get the more I hate doing it in the open (no cab).
3. I don't get much spare time, so when I do I want to be able to play not tinker. I want something dependable that will hold up. I know they all need to be maintained & that's okay. But I would rather spend more now than regret it latter.
4. I want something my kids can use too (supervised, at least for now).

Specific questions,
1. Can someone explain the difference in the drive systems between the new argo admiral, the MAX T-20 & the Mudd-OX?
2. The Max Buffalo looks handy but I am concerned that it may be under powered & to lite to push snow effectively.
3. Which Tracks are best for my needs (snow, mud, water) ?

So what say you guys?

Thanks

Scott

[6X6]

Hi Scott. -The Argo Admiral is a triple diff tranny. I have no more info on it but you can find animated CADs on Youtube of Tank triple diff setups. Hopefully someone will chime in with an answer as to whether it's the same principal.
-The T-20 is two identical but opposite trannies in one case. You can counter-rotate if you split your shifter (search T-20 Split shifter, it's easy to do, NO tranny mods, just the shift lever you move with your hand and linkage.) Again search will pull up more on the T-20 but you have very progressive steering when you get used to it, but locked 6wd when you're going straight. (6wd only since there are no current 8x8s that use the T-20, and besides the Attex 8x8 I don't know what else 8x8 ever did )
-MuddOx is Hydrostatic. While I own a few T-20 machines and have driven a couple Argos (but not the Admiral) I've never even seen an Ox in person. But Hydro is SWEET. precise infinitely variable smooth control. But robs HP (why Ox has 40 gas or 44 Diesel) Yes it still uses chains but I'm sure Mat has beefy ones in there (50-2 or 60?) Chains are very efficient, and as long as their not undersized or neglected, they'll last quite a while. ALWAYS carry a couple Masters and a chain breaker though, just in case.
I believe you can put a plow on all 3. Plowing is hard on ANY vehicle, so just bear in mind that the trouble free use will get shorter in time with plowing.
Thats about all I can contribute. Never used tracks, never driven a tracked Amphib. Matt's tracks for the Ox do look quite beefy and are supposed to swim great, and there is a new track for Argo, Adair? (Try search, it's new, MightyMaxIV posted up some pics. They look awesome, I think he loves them, too.)

[Dirty Harry]

Howdy Scott -

I have an older Max II and a newer Max IV and love them both. If you want to do stuff with the kids then multiple seating is a must, which could bump the Buffalo off the list. However, I have seen the Buff Truck in action and can tell you it has more than enough power to do what you'd ask of it - provided it has a big engine in it (20hp+). They pop up on ebay occasionally, and that (or craigslist) would allow you to get into this sport without such a heavy blow to your bank account. Any amphib ATV that has what you are looking for in it (short of 2 passenger models or older makes) will likely not be cheap. Expect to pay between $3 - 7k for a decent, recent AATV that will seat at least four people and/or do the work you mention (plow, haul, etc.). Tracks will and another $2k to the price with bear cages for support and the tracks themselves. Max has really nice tracks now compared to their older, slatted rubber strip job. They are one-piece snowmobile-type Kempex tracks. Standarad or with aluminum strips for added traction in loose/sloppy stuff.

BTW... the newer Buffalo has a lined dump bed, which makes the machine more versatile. And even though the front seat only has room for 2, you could throw one of your kids in the back, or just take turns ripping around with them! Whatever you choose, have fun and welcome to this wild & crazy sport!!!

[Bud]

I have been in the AATV game since 2003, and have an appreciation for your thorough questions before deciding what to purchase.

I wrestled with a lot of what you are going through this year when I decided to add to the stable. I wanted an AATV that could haul multiple passengers, was easy for my better half to operate (she does not like skid steering), and would perform well in the duck marshes where I hunt, which has both water and deep mud.

I went with an Argo Frontier 8x8, which is being built tomorrow and should be in my hands in a couple of weeks. I am adding Adair Tracks to it, along with a few other extras.

Good luck in your decision. There are a lot of good quality machines out there.

[mudbug3]

Bud

Your Argo Frontier 8x8 with Adair tracks on it should have some really good water speed, and also perform outstanding in the mud. I have been really impressed with the Adair tracks on my Mudd-Ox 8x8.

[jwiereng]

Steiner that is a nice piece of equipment. Do you have a plow for it? I have one too, there is a machine that can move a heap of snow in a hurry specially with the power angle blade. You could look into a soft cab for the steiner. Snow thrower is real sweet too.

Imagine a 6x6 with the hydro drive like the steiner. That would be best. But now cheap.

Too bad there are no 6x6 dealers around you. I am lucky that my local ski doo dealer now deals Argos

Good luck with the search.

[Scottw]

Thanks everyone for your insights.
I did talk with Matt from Mudd-Ox today. It sounds like he makes one heavy duty machine.
It's pricey decked out but I am considering it.
I am waiting for a little more information and best price on a 750HDI from an Argo Dealer.
Haven't heard back from the Max Fty yet.

Scott

jwiereng;

Yes I have a blade for the Steiner with hydraulic lift and tilt. I also have the scoop, mower,chipper & a few other attachments.
It's been a hard working trouble free machine for 12+ years. Believe me, I have put it to the test. If it were faster at pushing snow, I might consider a cab, but with just a 5ft blade it takes me way to long to plow my lot. Last year I hired it out.

[Dirty Harry]

The biggest blade you can get for the Max is 76" and a winch is included to lift & lower it, but if you want your own heavier-duty winch maybe R.I. will pro-rate the cost of the blade without a winch package? It might be cheaper to stick with the R.I. kit though, since it also contains the mounting plate & hardware to attach it to the body, if you aren't one to fabricate your own stuff. Tracks are recommend to push the big 76" blade, which means another additional cost to upgrade to them (the wheel extensions, reinforcement frame rails & bearing cages are included with the track package), but you'll also need a set of 21" tires as they can only run on 21" rawhides. So, if you buy the Max with big fat tires you'll have to change 'em out whenever converting to tracks, but you may find you ONLY want to run with tracks, in which case that won't matter. I am unsure, but they still may off the Max IV in it's "MaxTrax" package??? Regardless, you'll want the biggest engine (25hp+) they offer to push all that snow without straining the machine. The Kawasaki is nice, but my air-cooled Kohler has plenty of grunt. To stay out the elements you'll want the top & side skirt enclosure which means you'll need the factory rollcage, too. This will be a top-of-the-line package once if you get the Max IV or Buffalo, so cheap is not an option here. I don't know what the blade options/specs are for Argo. You have likely already discussed tracks & blade options with Matt when you spoke to him about the Mudd-Ox, and if you're seriously considering a loaded Ox from him then money is obviously not a problem. LOL.

[golpher76]

I see you are in PA The MAXIV might be worth a look for you. It has pretty much everything you are looking for.

Two (2) Max 6-wheel Amphibious Vehicles / ATV

[jpswift1]

I thought he was selling both of these for $2000. He wants $2000 for the Max II and $5000 for the Max IV. These machines have been for sale on Craigslist for a long time.......it seems like he'll have to lower his price more, especially on the Max IV if they're going to sell.

[Scottw]

Thanks for the reply,

I know it's going to get pricey. I still haven't heard back from R.I. I asked them to price both a Buffalo and a IV with the biggest engines for each, cab/roll cage, plow, tracks... the works.
I'm guessing I can buy a Buffalo AND a IV for the price of a full blown OX (or close to it) & I may actually consider that since I have two kids.

I asked the Argo dealer for a price on the 750HDI, cab, tracks etc. also. STill Waiting on that one too.

I'm also waiting for the cost for the Adair tracks for the OX $ Max's (they have the Argo prices listed)

Scott

The biggest blade you can get for the Max is 76" and a winch is included to lift & lower it, but if you want your own heavier-duty winch maybe R.I. will pro-rate the cost of the blade without a winch package? It might be cheaper to stick with the R.I. kit though, since it also contains the mounting plate & hardware to attach it to the body, if you aren't one to fabricate your own stuff. Tracks are recommend to push the big 76" blade, which means another additional cost to upgrade to them (the wheel extensions, reinforcement frame rails & bearing cages are included with the track package), but you'll also need a set of 21" tires as they can only run on 21" rawhides. So, if you buy the Max with big fat tires you'll have to change 'em out whenever converting to tracks, but you may find you ONLY want to run with tracks, in which case that won't matter. I am unsure, but they still may off the Max IV in it's "MaxTrax" package??? Regardless, you'll want the biggest engine (25hp+) they offer to push all that snow without straining the machine. The Kawasaki is nice, but my air-cooled Kohler has plenty of grunt. To stay out the elements you'll want the top & side skirt enclosure which means you'll need the factory rollcage, too. This will be a top-of-the-line package once if you get the Max IV or Buffalo, so cheap is not an option here. I don't know what the blade options/specs are for Argo. You have likely already discussed tracks & blade options with Matt when you spoke to him about the Mudd-Ox, and if you're seriously considering a loaded Ox from him then money is obviously not a problem. LOL.

Thanks golpher,

They seem high to me for used but maybe not. I'm heavily leaning toward new though. I don't want someone else's problem & there are no dealers of any kind around here to take one tow for repairs if I couldn't handle them my self.

Scott

I see you are in PA The MAXIV might be worth a look for you. It has pretty much everything you are looking for.

Two (2) Max 6-wheel Amphibious Vehicles / ATV

I'm thinking the same thing.

Scott