Pa aatv law sucks!!!

[amphibious drew]

The title is misleading because this has more to do with the way the law or lack there of is enforced.

So I found the law stating that AATV registration in PA was voluntary, which to me means do it if you want. Additionally they said that because it was voluntary and not required the decided not to issue them anymore. So I called the Fish and Boat Commission and asked if it was voluntary and they won't issue them if I could use it without registration. The lady didn't even know what amphibious meant then told me "They can't be used on our land." I want to know who this "our" is and why I can't use my boat on our lake. Pennsylvania isn't a state its a commonwealth and was once a center for amphibious vehicle manufacturing, why have they turned there back on our fine hobby. Are we that much more dangerous than a jet ski. I know 2-4kmph can be terrifying but really. I feel like calling every office every day until they change their minds and decide that I can use my boat on our freaking lake.

[lewis]

Are you just wanting to register it or go boating with it?

[amphibious drew]

I'd like to take it out on the lakes. I wonder how the amphibious vehicle tours get away with it. I found a loophole though. I called back and asked about pa honoring ohio boat registration and they said they did and there was nothing else needed for the "boat," however i need to take a pa boaters saftey course. Looks like my mom is getting my tomohawk and I'll just borrow it long term like.lol. I hate to give Ohio any money as that state is temporarly holding some of my money right now and won't give it back till they feel like it(no its not income tax and its money they have no legal right to), but PA has choosen to create law through not issueing registration that was by their own terms "voluntary."

[JoeMeg]

Drew,owning property both in Ohio and PA,both with easy reach of Pymatuning Resivoir I have done much, frustrating with no positive outcome,research on this topic. I know I posted stuff on this while it was still fresh(er) in my mind. I will look for those and try to resurect them. The one "Biggie" that I recall was the inability of the AATV owner(me) and the PA DNR officer to come to terms on what exactly constitutes a "Bilge Blower",it's function,it's manner of installation and exactly WHO's authority it is to be able to make this decision.Although Ohio was not real eager to help me out either,from what I recall they said since the body of water "shares" jurisdiction that the craft would need to be stickered as a watercraft in both ststes(i think,gotta find the old threads).
I'm in that area frequently and any time you want to get togather and go to the ranger station on the south end of pyma.res. and "tag team" them ,you just let me know,i'm sure we can arrange something.And who knows,maybe like Arlo said "maybe they'll think were both crazy and give in just to get rid of us,lol. BTW the hp limit on pyma.res. has been raised to 20 so they can't hide behind that one any longer.

[JoeMeg]

This is a pm that I sent member broncofiresmith last Aug.

Jeff, sorry i couldnt get back yesterday. glad to help but please be patient(i'm computer illiterate and cant type too good). find an odnr watercraft site and see chart for diff, "class" of craft. the fact that the motor is "permenently installed" self designates the "class" our aatv's fall in. (dont have any of my info in front of me but i have copies that stay with vehicle with all pertainent info highlighted.you would be amazed by how differently each officer actually tries to interperate their laws,nor do they have copies avail.for imediate reference.) anyhow, ya gotta get the class estab. then make sure you meet min req's. one area you will find a chalange is the "bilge area blower" specification. i reg'ed an argo with a brake cooling fan, the officer i delt with was nice enough to allow me to convince her that the brake blower actually met the requirement of the bilge blower. good luck,ask any other ?'s you like i'm glad to help. perhaps we should start(or continue?) a thread so others can get some insight to this process as i'm sure it will become a more frequent thing.i'll try to snag the info i have have outta the argo tonite so i have it in front of me in future. Joe.

[Dan67]

I'd think that the engine flywheel cover with its cooling vanes would qualify. I mean it blows air somewhere..

[amphibious drew]

Further investigation lead me to a letter from Jeffery N. Hoedt, Cheif, Office of Boating Safety, US CoastGuard written to Mr. John Simmons, Director, Bureau of Boating and Education. In this letter, the coast guard tells the boating commission that:

"1 U. S. C. 3 states that "The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a meas of transportation on water." Given the answers to the questions above and the definition of the word "vessel" in the US Code, when utilized on water, the Argo Amphibious ATV, although primarily a land vehicle, is a vessel while on the water and is subject to regulations administered by the U. S. Coast Guard and its Office of Boating Safety."

To me its seems like the coast guard told the boat commission that an amphibious vehicle is a boat, so I am a little unsure of the confusion in Harrisburg. Additionally, I found on PA's own fish and boat web page that the state of primary use is where a boat should be registered. I'm thinking of calling NY DMV and telling them that I am going to do most of my boating there and PA requires you to register it in the state of primary use. Maybe sneaking it past pa as a boat will be easier if I go through NY first. Thats if I ever decide to register it in PA. Like I said before, PA honor's out of state registrations. It almost seems like they are telling me to register it in NY because they are to stupid to know that its a multi-use machine.....BTW the state trails here won't allow them either as they are over 50 inches wide.

[lewis]

I registered the Avenger as a boat. That is what the numbers are on the side of my machine. It was easy here in NC.

[amphibious drew]

I registered the Avenger as a boat. That is what the numbers are on the side of my machine. It was easy here in NC.

In NY state its easy too accourding to jpswift. I think thats the route I will end up going as long as NY will accept my money for their stickers. It seems crazy, but as long as I swim in NY waters a second more than PA waters, it seems legal. I feel better about giving them my money rather than ohio, and their regulations seem easier. Pay us $21 and we give you a sticker.

[lewis]

Path of least resistance!

[azz7772]

you should get all your stickers done in camo it will be like a vehicle wrap but seriously is it not the governments responsibility to provide sufficient information on the laws and how they interpret them not each person having to do research and guessing if they will have trouble when they get stopped. Maybe should get a bunch of machines together bring them out front of the office and have them come outside and make a finale decision on their laws.

[Dw89xj]

Does anyone know how to get a title for one of these in pa? My understanding is that a serial number won't work as a vin in pa?

[old farmer]

contact the factory in 0ntario canada they are very good at helping and when you go to get a lic. or deal with these people that know what they are doing??? dont say anything just answer what they ask dont confuse them information

[lewie72]

I registered and titled a 1978 attex a few years ago I just took a pic of the serial number on the frame and had no trouble at all

[Dozerlarry]

well down here, nobody seems to care. I actually tried to register the Max (I was told it had to be to ride on federal land) but they didn't know what it was and said that if nobody hassled me don't worry about it. I can handle that.