Broken Axles

[IanPNG]

Hi All,

We have a pair of Max Buffalos at my work site and have been snapping axles. The chain tension was off so we think that may have been part of it, however they have been breaking on the outside, not inside the frame/tub. We are running tracks (you should see the rain and mud in PNG, we tried without the tracks and got stuck within minutes) and have them with the full track setup. We haven't been speeding or driving them very hard either.

Any other ideas of why they might be snapping? Any trouble shooting steps we can try?

And yes, I searched but most of what I found said check the chain tension which we are doing as I type this.

[Mike]

How old are these Buffalos? Are the axles hollow, solid or splined? Also, where are they snapping at? I know you said on the outside of the machine but is it at the bearing or at the hub? Is it always the same ones that snap. For example, are the rear ones the ones that break?

Also, do you run chains on all 6 axles while you run the tracks or do you remove the front chains?

[amphibious drew]

Adair argo sells track tuners that help eliminate chain wind up. It may be something to look into.

[IanPNG]

Buffalo's are brand new, and have been at site for a couple of weeks now. We are breaking the front and rears, but not the middles so far. Breaking on the outside at the bearings, not the hubs. Axles are splined.

Chains are running to all the wheels at this point.

[MAX IV Mark]

Do these have max brand factor track kit? If it does it should have extra bearing cages and support bar between the 3 axles. so what I'm asking is, are there 2 bearings per axle, or 3 bearings per axle?

[Mike]

Since they are brand new, I would go straight to the manufacturer and just give Recreatives Industries a call Amphibious Six-Wheel Drive All-Terrain Vehicles: MaxATVs - Call 1-800-255-2511. They should be able to work through this issue with you quickly. Outside of that, Max IV Mark is making sure you have the bearing cages since those are needed to support the axles with tracks. If you have those I would start troubleshooting by first making sure you have the correct track tension and air pressure in the tires. Then I would remove the chains to the front axles. It is sounding like chain windup issues caused by the tracks. You can search for "chain windup" here on the site for more info on it.

[Eldon]

It will be too much air in the tires almost certainly. Removing the front chains will curtail chain windup but I knew a guy with a Max IV who broke axles (solid splined) with 8 psi in the tires. Manual urges users to run 3-5 psi max and ideally 3 psi. The main reason to increase from 3 psi upwards is to tighten a stretched track . The one I saw was broke clean outside the bearing cage,rear. The reason the rear and front are breaking is air pressure because the air pressure in the middle one doesn't put strain on the axle like the front and rear. I read that actually the pressure on the axles when everything is correct is still incredible.

[IanPNG]

We are running 3 psi on them, and did a double take when we first read they were designed to run that low. We bought them new and shipped them overseas but, of course, the manuals didn't come with them and are still in Canada. So it was a few hours, and a blown tire, before I found this site and the manuals and we dropped the pressure.

We do have the track kit installed with all the bearings and my understanding is that we ordered them from the factory that way. The axles are snapping just outside of the track rail. As soon as the first one broke we figured that it was because of the stress caused by the track.

I plan to give Max a call on Monday. Well, Tuesday for me with the 15 hour time difference. I planned to call early this morning but the phone was down since no one brought fuel to the generator for it on this island.

Thanks for the troubleshooting tips guys, we are looking at everything mentioned trying to keep our buggies going.

[msafi65]

If you have the 21x11x8 carlisle AT 101 tires that should be on all track MAX vehicles after mid 2010 they require 9 -10 pounds of pressure to keep the tracks from riding up on the tires in a turn. The older goodyear rawhide tires run a maximum of 7 pounds. The last two track vehicles I worked on with broken axles outside the bearing came in with 30 psi in all tires.
I would also suggest removal of the front axle drive chains. It makes the vehicle roll much easier. Good luck hope this helps.

[Eldon]

Good point on the Carlisle AT101's. Mine is a 2003 with the 21 inch Rawhides with a really rugged sidewall. Further my experience is almost entirely running in the snow. It will of course run without snow but it is quite a bit harder on everything so in my case I save the tracks for snow usage. Running on bare ground changes the formula significantly in that one needs to turn much more gradually on dry ground as the tracks do roll up a lot more on turns. RI will have the ultimate fix.

[IanPNG]

We noticed that the promotional material for the ATVs with tracks was all about running them in the snow. Not really a problem in the tropics, however we get mud that can be up to a foot or more deep. Without tracks we get stuck quickly, but with tracks we breeze through everything. Downside is the whole breaking axles. I'll be calling Max on Monday to see if they have any ideas.

[Eldon]

They will quote specifics on tire pressure,removal of front chains,etc. and will want to know exactly what the machine was doing when the axle broke. Companies are doing a fair amount of outsourcing parts to reduce production costs,who knows maybe a bad batch of axles? They definitely will have different instruction on operating techniques for bare ground and mud than in the snow. Turning in the snow is effortless.

[IanPNG]

We talked to Max and they are covering the axles on warranty and their Australian distributor is shipping them up to us. Front chains are off, tires set up right and when it is dry we take off the tracks. Past couple of days have been pouring rain so we are back to deep mud and running tracks.

I must say that Max was very helpful and responsive to us, both in the US and in Australia. Hats off to them.

[amphibious drew]

We talked to Max and they are covering the axles on warranty and their Australian distributor is shipping them up to us. Front chains are off, tires set up right and when it is dry we take off the tracks. Past couple of days have been pouring rain so we are back to deep mud and running tracks.

I must say that Max was very helpful and responsive to us, both in the US and in Australia. Hats off to them.

Those folks over at RI are good people. There is a reason they have been building these things for over 40 years. Hope they got you sorted to where you don't have any more problems. Please don't forget about us too. I for one, would love to see some more shots of the trucks in action with that great background you have there.

[IanPNG]

Got a PM to update this thread with the outcome. First we stopped running with tracks. Just too much stress turning on sticky mud with them since the machine doesn't slide at all. We got all the new axles that were available from the dealer in Australia, put much larger wheels and tires on the Buffalo and haven't had axle problems since. Well, if you see my thread of max in the water we bent one axle, but considering it went end over end a few times down a hill I can safely say it has nothing to do with design or strength.

Since that time we also took delivery of 2 Max VI's. Rather than even try and run tracks we just ordered the largest Kenda Bearclaw tires that would fit the OE rims. Get a little more ground clearance (maybe and inch, but it helps) and with the super aggressive design we manage to pull through most things. And we also just stop before we think we would get stuck and walk. I know, strange concept. But we can all use the exercise.

I've talked with the guys at RI a few times now, and they are great and very helpful. So far they have shipped everything to us in Canada (work overseas, but most of the staff lives in Ontario so we act as part mules) but I'm sure that I will head down one day to pick up supplies or parts from them.