bearings, 93 max

[MAXII420]

I am leaning more toward stock for now, if I have any trouble out of them in the next few years I will upgrade for sure. Where do I get additional locking collars for the inside of the tub? While I am ALL for a heavy duty upgrade, I have a 7 year old on my ass to get him back on the trails! lol I am very handy with tool and auto stuff, but a DETAILED walk through of the whole bigger bearing upgrade thing would be great. I am with the guy that said (more or less) that "cheap" but well maintained bearings will out last neglected expensive ones. Are the 72's much if any more expensive? What about the collars? Really on the fence here.....

[amphibious drew]

It's a 93 max II just keep it stock. If you want to upgrade later, just wait for a deal on a newer one with splined axles and buy it then sell yours. Just don't buy the cheapest bearing that fits the hole on it and you will be fine. Make sure it's a triple seal bearing with a r3 code. Some people just put standard bearings in and they do not last.

[jpswift1]

JP, you shouldn't take things so personal. When you are given information that varies from your own opinion, just find ways to discredit that person instead of discussing the different opinions. Disregard any info here that tells you how it might be done better.

There are few people here that have changed as many bearings, on as many different machines, used in as many different conditions, as I have. There are many options for changing and upgrading bearings and the cost of the bearing is minimal considering the hours of labor it takes to change all of them, and the leaking you'll have with cheap bearings. Some here are over looking the fact that these junk parts are made in China, which is a great difference compared to the higher quality parts we used to get (like those parts used on Hustlers and Swamp Foxs, long before all our parts came from China) With all the different options, I guarantee you that using those cheap bearings from Buffalo Bearing is the absolute worst way to do it.

Hey Brandon, before you post something you need to realize a couple things. First off don't tell someone that disagrees with a statement that they "shouldn't take things personal" and then turn it around and make a statement saying that they're finding ways of discrediting information that differs from their opinion when you did just that. When someone makes a statement like you did saying 62mm bearings are junk and they're fine if your machine is a trail queen, that's very general, not necessarily true, and narrow minded. And you're the one trying to talk to me as if I'm ignorant by saying, "disregard any info here that tells you how it might be done better". Maybe you should take your own advice and save comments like you made for somewhere else. Nobody puts up with that type of condescending attitude here and you're certainly not helping anyone by doing that. Thanks, we appreciate it. And I'm just curious, how can you guarantee that using those "cheap bearings" from Buffalo Bearing is the absolute worst way to do it? Do you know how Buffalo Bearing gets their data on which bearings give you the most bang for the buck? Are you aware of the communication about positive and negative aspects of the bearings that they have directly with the manufacturers to help their customers get the best bearing for their application? Do you know how they've dealt with AATV folks to help them test the various brands of bearings that they sell to determine which ones work best for the AATV application? Do you know about the various bearing brands they supply us with? I don't think you're aware of that, so I'm just curious how you can guarantee anyone the bearings they sell are the absolute worst way to do it. I don't work for Buffalo Bearing, I don't have anything to do with the company and I don't profit by telling people to deal with them. I have been helped out numerous times by them and they bend over backwards for me, so I spread the word about them.

Now getting back on topic. Recreatives had a Max IV frame that was their "bearing testing" machine (a 6X6World member now has that frame in a unique machine that is posted here on the site). They had Max gas tanks bolted onto the flanges and filled each of the tanks with silty water and they drove each of the axles for long periods of time to test which bearings held up best. I can't remember all the data that they found, but this would certainly be an interesting way to test various bearing configurations like Jim mentioned. Of course, the Recreatives bearing testing machine doesn't supply the data with the bearings having the weight of the machine on them, but it's still a pretty good method. If someone had the time on their hands and a spare frame and some tanks sitting around, they could probably set this up. Keep the axles spinning with a little Briggs horizontal shaft motor, set up an hour meter on the engine. Stop it at the intervals where the bearings would need to be greased, and pump some grease in each of the flanges (it would be a good way to test the different greases out there as well). This would also be a good way to test chains and sprockets. It would be interesting to see a graphical display of bearing life and cost to see how each brand stacks up against one another.

[MAXII420]

Drew, I had semi-hijacked this bearing thread on the first page by asking about the ones in my 2001 MAXII. From what I gather so far that one does have the splined axels right? Should I still just keep it stock? I don't mind doing this every 3-4 years (and greasing them often) but if they go bad much sooner then that I am leaning upgrade.....I guess what I need to ask is....how long does a set of bearing last in years? I ride in mud and water EVERY time I ride (3-4 times a week if i'm lucky), but I will grease monthly, on stock bearings how long am I looking roughly?

[jpswift1]

I am leaning more toward stock for now, if I have any trouble out of them in the next few years I will upgrade for sure. Where do I get additional locking collars for the inside of the tub? While I am ALL for a heavy duty upgrade, I have a 7 year old on my ass to get him back on the trails! lol I am very handy with tool and auto stuff, but a DETAILED walk through of the whole bigger bearing upgrade thing would be great. I am with the guy that said (more or less) that "cheap" but well maintained bearings will out last neglected expensive ones. Are the 72's much if any more expensive? What about the collars? Really on the fence here.....

I can help you on some of this. Like Drew said, stay away from bearings that really are junk like single or double lip Chinese no name ones that some retail stores sell, like Tractor Supply. Those are the kind of bearings that aren't meant to be used in our AATV applications. A good "R3" triple lip sealed bearing, greased with good waterproof marine grease at proper intervals will work fine for you. Since your machine is a 2001, you already have the 72mm outer bearings. Just to make sure your machine is a 2001 and has the 72mm bearings, call Recreatives and give them your serial number. Amphibious Six-Wheel Drive All-Terrain Vehicles: MaxATVs - Call 1-800-255-2511 This way you'll know for sure. I know some new folks to the hobby have been mislead by sellers telling them the machines are much newer than they actually are. If it has splined axles, it's most certainly going to have 72mm bearings. It's hard to say how long they'll last really, that can really vary. Keep them greased every every few weeks with a good waterproof marine grease and I'd say you'll get a good while out of them. But as I mentioned, this all differs from person to person.

[amphibious drew]

MaxII420, I have a IV with splined axles and I kept the bearings stock. I am also doing a custom build right now using a chopped max frame, and I am keeping the stock bearings. 99% of the time people ask about bearings on here they are directed to buffalo bearing to get basically a factory replacement part. I don't know why this thread is getting off track on where to get quality parts. My guess is a certain max dealer has some hidden motives behind his posts.

[thebuggyman1]

Drew, I had semi-hijacked this bearing thread on the first page by asking about the ones in my 2001 MAXII. From what I gather so far that one does have the splined axels right? Should I still just keep it stock? I don't mind doing this every 3-4 years (and greasing them often) but if they go bad much sooner then that I am leaning upgrade.....I guess what I need to ask is....how long does a set of bearing last in years? I ride in mud and water EVERY time I ride (3-4 times a week if i'm lucky), but I will grease monthly, on stock bearings how long am I looking roughly?

Start greasing weekly instead. Grease after a ride so the grease in the bearing is somewhat warm and store your grease gun inside the house in the winter months. Warm grease flows better, and the hole they put in the bearings is very small (why???). The grease can only flow into that hole slowly, and it will want to squeeze out between the flanges etc.
Inner bearings should not need to be greased near as often. I'll do that every 2nd or 3rd time I do outers, or at approx 10 hours use like is factory recommended.

I would also recommend an hour meter. They are cheap/easy to install, and help to let you know when to do fluid changes etc.

[thebuggyman1]

Drew: I don't think he is selling Argo bearings and parts, so he wouldn't have a vested interest in them.
BUT, he is also not stating an upgrade price. Adair sells an "upgrade" kit for the HDI bearings on Argo models.....I believe it's $86 per. Times 6= $516 plus tax, shipping, and any other parts needed like inner bearings, chains, etc. I think most people with a 20+ year old maxII would rather save a few hundred bucks, and buy the $13 buffalo bearing.
As for time, yes, I have had a couple failures of these bearings, but there isn't a bearing on that machine I can't change in under an hour.....and that includes sweeping the floor afterwards.

[MaxRules]

There is nothing wrong with keeping the stock bearings, if you don't want to spend any more money or go to a little bit of extra trouble to upgrade to a better bearing. I just want people to know there are better options and I hate to see everyone guided toward the worst bearing on the market. If you want to keep the stock type of bearing at a low price, I'd recommend buying them from TheBigBearingStore.com . Their prices are the same as Buffalo Bearing, they always have them in stock, and they are "slightly" better quality. I've tried them all and for about $8, these are hard to beat. Anyone looking to upgrade their machine can just contact me for info. I've done plenty of them and no, I don't sell the parts.
It is fairly difficult to make money on an Argo bearing when you're not an Argo dealer. In fact the only machine I'd even care to sell is the Max, which is the exact vehicle I'm trashing on with this bearing problem. I do that so maybe they'll change some day. I really don't like taking a brand new $12,000 Max IV in the water and seeing most of the bearings leaking water. It seems my opinions are more based on fact, rather than trying to sell something.

[thebuggyman1]

A little more info I found out a while back: Timken is gobbling up many of the other bearing manufacturers. At that time they were just buying them and not changing anything. Corporations often do that, sometimes they cheapen the other company's product, sometimes they just want the manufacturing facilities...lots of reasons. One thing does usually happen, prices go up, and so do corporate profits.

I like the idea of using a stronger bearing flange, like the cast Argo ones. Too bad the bolt pattern only fits the older (62mm) MaxIV frame holes.
Any Ideas on where to get good 3 bolt (MaxII) 62mm and 72mm ones and also the "odd" bolt pattern 4 bolt 72mm for newer MaxIV's ?

I still think the idea of moving the bearing farther out on the axle (bearing extension) is more important than the type of bearing used.

[amphibious drew]

If one was wanting to upgrade, and did not want to sink a ton of extra time, money, and effort into things, they could contact Adair Argo and get some synthetic bearings off Tim. I have only read positive results from them, but they are still somewhat new and untested. However, I am sure they could be had in standard sizes without having to modify your entire assembly.