Tracks vs 26" Tires

[jpswift1]

Would I need bearing extensions when running the Adair tracks on a Max IV?

I wouldn't run Adair tracks on your Max without the bearing extensions......that's a recipe for bent axles.

[Garintheair]

How well does a Max IV perform through different conditions with OEM 26" tires vs the OEM track kit. I am trying to decide if tracks are worth the huge price increase?

We live in Minnesota so I need the Max to perform in mud, snow, and normal trail riding.

The timing of this post is perfect; I'm going to make this very comparison this afternoon! I have a 2014 Max IV, loaded, 29 hp EFI with RI tracks. A friend of mine has a 2014 Max IV, loaded, 23 hp with Goodyear 26". I've got 1100 acres of playground with fields, woods, streams, ponds and some steep drainage ditches. There's about 2' of fresh snow on the ground which should make a perfect comparison of the machines.

I have not been able to stick my Max IV on tracks yet although I did get into a very bad situation a couple of months ago with a severe melt off causing a swollen creek to overflow into a very secluded cornfield and then back into itself via a flooded drainage. The tracked Max could not overcome the flowing water IN THE FIELD and turned turtle; they do sink...!

Today I want to see how much snow will stop a Max IV with the 26" Goodyears...

Gary

[jcarr343]

The timing of this post is perfect; I'm going to make this very comparison this afternoon! I have a 2014 Max IV, loaded, 29 hp EFI with RI tracks. A friend of mine has a 2014 Max IV, loaded, 23 hp with Goodyear 26". I've got 1100 acres of playground with fields, woods, streams, ponds and some steep drainage ditches. There's about 2' of fresh snow on the ground which should make a perfect comparison of the machines.

I have not been able to stick my Max IV on tracks yet although I did get into a very bad situation a couple of months ago with a severe melt off causing a swollen creek to overflow into a very secluded cornfield and then back into itself via a flooded drainage. The tracked Max could not overcome the flowing water IN THE FIELD and turned turtle; they do sink...!

Today I want to see how much snow will stop a Max IV with the 26" Goodyears...

Gary

Can't wait to hear the outcome of this testing

[Garintheair]

Can't wait to hear the outcome of this testing

About six hours running with both machines yesterday-the last two as a dual recovery but more on that later-and I have a good comparison of tracks vs 26" wheels. This was done in western NY with temperatures at 15 degrees, light icy snow falling and a little over a foot of snow covering the ground with deeper drifts in areas. This was a relatively flat area with no hills to speak of. The ponds and ground were frozen solid so no water testing other than driving across the ice. Both machines are brand new with less than 15 hours on each.

I'll start by saying that with any kind of snow I would go with tracks hands down! The wheeled Max IV could only handle about 12"-16" of snow, with frozen ground underneath, until it either got high centered or plowed a wave in front of it stopping it cold. The tracked Max did not get stuck in any depth of snow including the deep drifts. If the wheeled Max followed the path of the tracked Max it would go through more snow than on it's own but the depth and "type" of snow was still a variable. I was surprised that in a head to head speed test the tracked Max was faster than the 26" wheeled Max on level ground. I don't know if this was due to the wheels taking longer to get through the snow than the tracks, the wheeled Max being 23 hp Kohler vs 29 hp Kawasaki on tracks or that there were two large people in the wheeled Max and only myself in the tracked vehicle.

I was less than impressed with the Kawasaki overall for a number of reasons. It seems to have plenty of power but this machine already smoked a drive belt in it's short life and I smelled burning rubber yesterday and had to back off the throttle to allow the clutches to "catch up" with the engine. I don't know if there is more power than the clutches can handle all at once or if the engine mounting has anything to do with it. With the engine cover off, revving the engine in neutral causes the engine to squat more than a couple of inches towards the PTO side pushing down on the soft motor mount. Maybe too flexible in the mount? I was impressed with the amount of heat in the cabin, though. Both machines have cabs and the Kawasaki in particular kept the cabin VERY comfortable despite the 15 degree temperatures! The faster the machine went the warmer the cab got-no hat, gloves or heavy coat required! The downside was the fogging of the windshield which was frustrating as my wipe rag couldn't keep up with the moisture.

The winches got a heavy workout yesterday, more so for the tracked machine having to pull the wheeled machine out of the drifts. Being inside and feeling the amount of body flex during winching-including some side pulls do to terrain-was a bit unnerving. It felt as if the whole body was getting twisted and pulled like taffy and I was concerned about cracks due to the cold weather. It was dark when we finished so I didn't get a chance to inspect anything.

The last phase was getting both machines stuck in a drainage ditch which cut the property nearly in half through both woods and fields! The ditch was about 8' wide x 4' deep, snow covered and shaped like a "V." During the first pass the tracked Max made it down up and over without trouble. The wheeled Max followed and promptly got stuck in a level attitude at the bottom! Due to the elevation difference the tracked Max could not pull it out. Sooo...back across the ditch to get to the lane to the equipment barn for something heavier; that's when the tracked Max got stuck, too, at a 45 degree angle facing up the other side! This one was stuck hard as the snow was over the top of the tracks, the incline was too steep and icy for any grip and the back end was wedged in the bottom of the "V." As we were in the middle of a cornfield there was absolutely nothing to winch on to. I drew the short straw and had to walk nearly 3/4 of a mile, through a cold windy icy snow, through the fields and snow drifts to get to the barn for equipment. None of the heavy diesel equipment was plugged in so I choose the Kubota 4WD with terrain tires to use as a winch anchor. The Kubota barely made it the the Max's as it could not go through the snow drifts and I had to pick my way in low gear through the fields to get to them. No joy with the Kubota; the winch on the tracked Max simply dragged the Kubota across the cornfield back to itself-even with the Kubota in reverse and pulling against the Max. Back to the barn where I got the Cat dozer started and which made short work of getting both Max's out of the ditch!

I now have concerns about the T-20 bands in the tracked Max. This is a new machine with the new style black bands. The transmission originally worked flawlessly; the vehicle tracked straight, turned with little effort or noise and with minimal lateral pull. Once extracted from the ditch, the first thing I noticed was that I had to pull the lateral nearly to the seat now in order to turn-both directions. There was also a loud squealing noise while turning which wasn't there before! I don't know if I ground down the band material, scored the drums or stretched the bands while trying to get out of the ditch but something happened in any case. I do know a person who actually BROKE the end of his right side band with less than one hour on his brand new Max II 23 hp on wheels! This was a unique case where he left the Max outside, the tub filled with water and froze solid and he then tried to use the machine with the entire drive train locked in a block of ice.

I'll repeat this test when the spring thaw brings wet fields/woods and a lot of deep mud; that's if I didn't damage the tracked Max during this comparison. I would definitely recommend tracks for any kind of snow but I also learned that these machines cannot be pushed too hard without something giving out.

Gary

[amphibious drew]

The squealing may have just been the belt getting a little wet.

[Garintheair]

The squealing may have just been the belt getting a little wet.

No, I'm pretty certain it was from the T20; I've heard it in other machines, mostly in reverse. I probably won't check that out until it warms up, though, but I'm pretty sure that something got worn/scored/stretched.

Gary

[jpswift1]

No, I'm pretty certain it was from the T20; I've heard it in other machines, mostly in reverse. I probably won't check that out until it warms up, though, but I'm pretty sure that something got worn/scored/stretched.

Gary

That sound is usually just belt squeal.

[Garintheair]

That sound is usually just belt squeal.

I probable should refine the definition of the sound; it's more of a metallic grind/squeal. I do hope that belt squeal is all that it is but the fact remains that the laterals have much more throw before engagement-literally almost to the edge of the front seat-than they did prior to the ditch episode! I'll be changing the trans fluid soon and I'll see what comes out. My sense is that something stretched or wore with the bands but I hope that I'm wrong.

Thanks.
Gary

[jpswift1]

If it's a metallic noise, stop driving the machine immediately. It sounds like the material may be gone off one or more of the bands in the T-20. The machine will eat the drums if that's the case. Get that T-20 out and split it open and see what needs fixed. Hopefully a band or two will just need relined.......this can be done through Transmission Crafters for $35 per band. A pretty inexpensive fix, like I said as long as the drums aren't damaged.

[msafi65]

T20 will scream very loud when bands slip. The Kawasaki has plenty of power to slip the bands if not applying pressure to sticks. It will stay noisy if the drums and bands got glazed. Cool it turns into a groaning sound when turning. First thing to do is change fluid and adjust for 7 " stick travel at the top. I prefer type F fluid and no additive needed with black bands. If the noise stays and you tear down the trany,I'm betting the drums will be polished to where you will be able to see your reflection in them. T-20s that make the groaning noise almost always pop small pieces of band off at the plunger end. I usually see the noise and polished drums and bands in vehicles that operators slip the bands to control speed in reverse. I deglaze good bands with green scrub pad and the drums with 80 grit paper in the lathe. With the time you have on that one change the fluid and try it.
Also a question were you running all the chains in the track vehicle?

[Garintheair]

T20 will scream very loud when bands slip. The Kawasaki has plenty of power to slip the bands if not applying pressure to sticks. It will stay noisy if the drums and bands got glazed. Cool it turns into a groaning sound when turning. First thing to do is change fluid and adjust for 7 " stick travel at the top. I prefer type F fluid and no additive needed with black bands. If the noise stays and you tear down the trany,I'm betting the drums will be polished to where you will be able to see your reflection in them. T-20s that make the groaning noise almost always pop small pieces of band off at the plunger end. I usually see the noise and polished drums and bands in vehicles that operators slip the bands to control speed in reverse. I deglaze good bands with green scrub pad and the drums with 80 grit paper in the lathe. With the time you have on that one change the fluid and try it.
Also a question were you running all the chains in the track vehicle?

Thanks guys! It would be unfortunate if the bands broke/stretched/glazed the drum as I did not plan on tearing this thing down with so few hours on it. My comparison of tracks vs wheels was not a torture test by any stretch of the imagination; simply normal riding over various snow covered terrain! Everything was fine until the ditch episode. Attempting to drive out of the ditch seems to have caused some trouble with the T-20. This is probably where a Mudd Ox would have been a more suitable vehicle! Looking at the specs it would seem to be a much more heavily built machine with a drive train not subject to band/drum issues.

I'll give it a fluid change when the weather warms a bit and see what happens. I'll also adjust the bands and stick travel then, too. Hopefully I won't have to tear this down to explore further...

Thanks again,
Gary

[MAX IV Mark]

Also check your motor mounts. Mine broke and made a metallic grinding noise as the clutch hit the motor platform.

[Garintheair]

Also check your motor mounts. Mine broke and made a metallic grinding noise as the clutch hit the motor platform.

I'll check that, as well. With the amount of movement of the motor while in neutral I could see additional stress while under load!